General American Politics Thread

[rairii]

On 6/14/2020 at 10:05 AM, BTGBullseye said:

Yes, does it really matter? It's news to some people.

The fact that it IS news to some people just goes to show how terrible the political state of affairs in this country is. For all intents and purposes the United States has been hardly shy of fascist since the Reagan administration, and there's absolutely no representation of left wing policy anywhere to be found.

[BTGBullseye]

On 7/7/2020 at 5:01 PM, Annie said:

The fact that it IS news to some people just goes to show how terrible the political state of affairs in this country is. For all intents and purposes the United States has been hardly shy of fascist since the Reagan administration, and there's absolutely no representation of left wing policy anywhere to be found.

It's been that way since LONG before Reagan. As for left policy, there is a lot of it, just not anywhere near as visible as the right stuff. (and usually as a result of the Constitution)

[rairii]

On 7/8/2020 at 9:31 PM, BTGBullseye said:

It's been that way since LONG before Reagan. As for left policy, there is a lot of it, just not anywhere near as visible as the right stuff. (and usually as a result of the Constitution)

The reason why it's not visible is because it doesn't exist. There's a lot of liberal policy but left policy would imply some framework for workplace democracy, anti-corporatist and even anti-capitalist policy, and mass movement toward civil rights policy for marginalized people. The closest thing we have to true left wing policy is anti-trust/anti-monopoly law, on the flip side civil rights are constantly being curbed under Trump.

[BTGBullseye]

17 hours ago, Annie said:

civil rights are constantly being curbed under Trump.

[citation needed]

[rairii]

11 hours ago, BTGBullseye said:

[citation needed]

https://civilrights.org/trump-rollbacks/

Here's a comprehensive list of every civil rights rollback under Trump. Not a proper citation nor are they included, but you can quite easily find sources for every item on this list. One of the most recent was a rollback on a housing rule that required homeless shelters to not discriminate against transgender people, and mind you, this kind of discrimination has gotten trans people killed in the past.

[BTGBullseye]

12 hours ago, Annie said:

https://civilrights.org/trump-rollbacks/

Here's a comprehensive list of every civil rights rollback under Trump. Not a proper citation nor are they included, but you can quite easily find sources for every item on this list. One of the most recent was a rollback on a housing rule that required homeless shelters to not discriminate against transgender people, and mind you, this kind of discrimination has gotten trans people killed in the past.

The fact that the list is so heavily populated by "was viewed suspiciously by" comments or stuff completely unrelated to actual civil rights, (like that first one, which is a gross mischaracterization of the actual order) and not by actual removals of civil rights is quite a detriment to your argument.

[kerdios]

So who else has joined the "Trump is finally wearing a mask" party all the news channels are touting (including foreign news)?

[Im_CIA]

drumpf btfo lmaooo
it's literally over the el grumpf that stole the election hahaha

[rairii]

On 7/12/2020 at 6:48 PM, BTGBullseye said:

The fact that the list is so heavily populated by "was viewed suspiciously by" comments or stuff completely unrelated to actual civil rights, (like that first one, which is a gross mischaracterization of the actual order) and not by actual removals of civil rights is quite a detriment to your argument.

Yes. The list, in addition to specific civil rights rollbacks and anti-civil rights policy, includes cases where executive orders included vague and potentially harmful language (i.e. "was viewed suspiciously") or had negative side effects for certain civil rights issues, intended or not.

 

The executive order mentioned as the first item on the list is an interesting one. The stated goal was to "protect the nation from foreign terrorist entry", it targeted majority Muslim countries, and the effect was that travel from those countries was to be immediately suspended except for on a case-by-case basis (some for a specific amount of time, some indefinitely,) and the amount of refugees allowed in to the U.S. from those countries reduced after the travel ban was lifted. Collectively, terrorist attacks in post-9/11 America that can be attributed to Islam extremists total fewer than 100 deaths, so either this was a similarly fruitless security measure to the TSA created 15 years after the fact, or it was a measure designed to prevent middle eastern Muslims from seeking asylum in the United States, which would be characteristic considering Trump is a self-proclaimed nationalist.  The list creator did not mischaracterize the order.

 

Beyond that, there's a bigger issue here in the fact that you're dismissing the entire list due to a few of what you perceive to be non-examples of civil rights abuses. With any degree of intellectual honesty you would acknowledge a few of the blatantly obvious cases of the Trump admin actually being a threat to LGBTQ+ civil rights rather than knocking down straw men.

 

And again, even beyond that, this is to say nothing of the fact that you've reduced my initial comment that left wing policy doesn't exist in the U.S. to a complaint about Trump's civil rights abuses.

 

see ya later when you inevitably throw a tantrum and refuse to address any of my actual points

 

[kerdios]

The US asylum program has shown epic fails in things like the taking in of the Persian Ayatolah (when maybe he should have been taken to guantanamo instead).

One of the things that always surprise me is the panic from deaths from terrorism, when the death toll from vehicle homicide and manslaughter is a lot higher and a lot more easily preventable.

Of course terrorism if not taken care of in time has  the potential to multiply the casualties like a virus, but there are enough safe guards for it already.

Edited July 14, 2020 by kerdios (see edit history)

[Kraken]

7 hours ago, kerdios said:

Of course terrorism if not taken care of in time has the potential to multiply the casualties like a virus, but there are enough safe guards for it already.

You're implying the American Government is actually being intelligent about a virus.

[kerdios]

3 hours ago, Kraken said:

You're implying the American Government is actually being intelligent about a virus.

I could say mushrooms after the rain if it'd make you less fidgety about my motives?

Edited July 14, 2020 by kerdios (see edit history)

[Kraken]

3 hours ago, kerdios said:

I could say mushrooms after the rain if it'd make you less fidgety about my motives?

 

I don't call it questioning your motives, more like taking the piss on the American Government regarding their response (or lack thereof) to COVID-19.

[kerdios]

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2020/07/russias-gru-hackers-hit-us-government-and-energy-targets/

[kerdios]

 

[Im_CIA]

2015: "No Trump, the election can't be hacked"
2020: "How Trump is hacking the election"

[kerdios]

steal=/=hack

[rairii]

3 hours ago, Im_CIA said:

2015: "No Trump, the election can't be hacked"
2020: "How Trump is hacking the election"

It's funny. I know republicans and the far right in general love to misrepresent their political opponents but usually they're not this blatant about it. Try harder.

[Im_CIA]

If people want Trump out, they should vote him out. If they are skeptictal of the postal service, then they should vote in person.

 

There, all your grievances are solved. 

[rairii]

3 hours ago, Im_CIA said:

If people want Trump out, they should vote him out. If they are skeptictal of the postal service, then they should vote in person.

 

There, all your grievances are solved. 

Again, no.

 

First of all there's a global pandemic going on and it'll continue through the entire year, so in-person voting isn't safe, certainly not for the demographic who typically vote by mail.

 

Second, visiting an in-person polling location isn't always feasible for people who use mail-in voting.

 

It may seem like a simple issue when you don't really think much about it, then again, not thinking seems to be a common issue with Trump supporters.