General American Politics Thread

[Emby]

the difference between the two of you is that I wouldn't invite you over to hang out

[Shaddy]

On 8/8/2021 at 2:49 PM, Im_Unemployed said:

The world of comedy will feel a lot emptier if you no one pokes fun at racial stereotypes, or deliberately avoids some in favor of others. 

You'd have to make some case for it actually being funny for that to be true.

[Im_CIA]

On 8/8/2021 at 7:57 PM, Emby said:

the difference between the two of you is that I wouldn't invite you over to hang out

I make a lot less than he does, so I understand.

 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Im_Unemployed (see edit history)

[Emby]

On 8/8/2021 at 5:08 PM, Im_Unemployed said:

I make a lot less than he does, so I understand.

It's not that you make too much or not enough, it's that you keep saying racist stuff

[Im_CIA]

On 8/8/2021 at 8:19 PM, Emby said:

It's not that you make too much or not enough, it's that you keep saying racist stuff

I don't recall saying anything racist here

 

 

On 8/8/2021 at 8:07 PM, Shaddy said:

You'd have to make some case for it actually being funny for that to be true.

 

[Emby]

you probably didn't remember saying racist stuff because you weren't actively thinking about saying racist stuff. doesn't mean racist stuff didn't come out

[Shaddy]

On 8/8/2021 at 5:24 PM, Im_Unemployed said:

 

Okay, so to be clear here: you are worried about people saying racism is bad because it makes you less likely to see things like this not-that-funny scene from a movie from 40 years ago?

[Im_CIA]

On 8/8/2021 at 8:48 PM, Emby said:

you probably didn't remember saying racist stuff because you weren't actively thinking about saying racist stuff. doesn't mean racist stuff didn't come out

Do you mean on here or in general?

 

On 8/8/2021 at 9:13 PM, Shaddy said:

Okay, so to be clear here: you are worried about people saying racism is bad because it makes you less likely to see things like this not-that-funny scene from a movie from 40 years ago?

You said make case. This is what you may call an exhibit.  Also I don't know where this notion of me being worried about people saying racism is bad came from. Wasn't this about casual racism used in comedy? 

[Shaddy]

On 8/8/2021 at 6:45 PM, Im_Unemployed said:

You said make case. This is what you may call an exhibit.

I haven't denied that. It's just not a very good one.

On 8/8/2021 at 6:45 PM, Im_Unemployed said:

Also I don't know where this notion of me being worried about people saying racism is bad came from. Wasn't this about casual racism used in comedy? 

That's literally the only thing you've been arguing against this whole time. Do you think we're trying to usher in speech laws or something? There is no part of this conversation where my position has not been "racism bad", and you, by saying that people being less racist will somehow hurt comedy, are making an argument for "racism sometimes good".

 

It wasn't a very strong argument for minstrel shows, either.

[rairii]

On 8/7/2021 at 2:54 AM, Im_Unemployed said:

I'm pretty sure he meant something like talking about your sexual escapeds with a coworker. It's risky and might be slimy, but it's not the same as slapping someone's ass at the copier and you know it.

And you'd be correct, at least about the first part. Chatting about sex with your coworkers is something you can probably get away with really easily provided nobody goes to HR complaining of a hostile work environment, it's still sexual harassment though. Slapping someone's ass at the copier is an interesting comparison, because that's not sexual harassment, that's assault.

[Shaddy]

I cannot think of anywhere I've worked where I even remotely wanted to talk about sex with anyone.

 

I'm pretty sure the most intimate "biological" conversation I ever got was correcting a colleague that eating a lot of soy does not mean he needs to take testosterone supplements. And that was because he was upset about taking so much testosterone that he was losing his hair.

[rairii]

On 8/9/2021 at 12:24 AM, Shaddy said:

I cannot think of anywhere I've worked where I even remotely wanted to talk about sex with anyone.

 

I'm pretty sure the most intimate "biological" conversation I ever got was correcting a colleague that eating a lot of soy does not mean he needs to take testosterone supplements. And that was because he was upset about taking so much testosterone that he was losing his hair.

^this.

It's always so uncomfortable when coworkers try chatting with me about such personal shit like that. Like, I'm just here to get paid, not hear some creep I barely know talk about what he's doing with his dick.

[Im_CIA]

On 8/9/2021 at 12:15 AM, Riles said:

And you'd be correct, at least about the first part. Chatting about sex with your coworkers is something you can probably get away with really easily provided nobody goes to HR complaining of a hostile work environment, it's still sexual harassment though.

https://www.eeoc.gov/sexual-harassment

Doesn't look like it falls under the common case, unless they are talking about having sex with YOU specifically.  I'm not a lawyer, but it looks like it only counts as sexual harassment if it's recurring and makes a "hostile work environment" like you said.

 

Quote

Slapping someone's ass at the copier is an interesting comparison, because that's not sexual harassment, that's assault.

It can be both? A square is a rectangle, but not all rectangles are squares.

 

 

[rairii]

On 8/9/2021 at 12:38 AM, Im_Unemployed said:

https://www.eeoc.gov/sexual-harassment

Doesn't look like it falls under the common case, unless they are talking about having sex with YOU specifically.  I'm not a lawyer, but it looks like it only counts as sexual harassment if it's recurring and makes a "hostile work environment" like you said.

 

It can be both? A square is a rectangle, but not all rectangles are squares.

Everything I'm saying is keeping in mind that a lot of companies take a more proactive stance on sexual harassment and have their own internal policies to combat it. It's good business, after all, not doing the Blizzard thing of being an absolute shitfest of sexual harassment and being on the bad end of a massive lawsuit. LEGALLY speaking I'm kinda just talking out of my ass here, but everywhere I've worked has been pretty tough on that kind of thing, save for Amazon.

[Im_CIA]

On 8/9/2021 at 12:53 AM, Riles said:

Everything I'm saying is keeping in mind that a lot of companies take a more proactive stance on sexual harassment and have their own internal policies to combat it. It's good business, after all, not doing the Blizzard thing of being an absolute shitfest of sexual harassment and being on the bad end of a massive lawsuit. LEGALLY speaking I'm kinda just talking out of my ass here, but everywhere I've worked has been pretty tough on that kind of thing, save for Amazon.

The bigger the company the bigger the rulebook. Maybe BTG works out of an Alaskan fishing trawler with a bunch of tightly knit Captain Ahabs in yellow raincoats. 

[Shaddy]

On 8/8/2021 at 9:36 PM, Riles said:

^this.

It's always so uncomfortable when coworkers try chatting with me about such personal shit like that. Like, I'm just here to get paid, not hear some creep I barely know talk about what he's doing with his dick.

Well I mean, this was mostly a conversation about diet, and very dumb pseudoscience about the chemical makeup of soy products mostly made up to slander vegans. I guess it's a good sign about places I worked that I never really heard the kind of talk you mean from other people? I did have a coworker's psycho ex come in demanding I tell him where she was, which I thankfully neither did nor even knew. Depending on what he was doing that could have turned out far worse.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Shaddy (see edit history)

[BTGBullseye]

On 8/8/2021 at 11:32 PM, Im_Unemployed said:

The bigger the company the bigger the rulebook. Maybe BTG works out of an Alaskan fishing trawler with a bunch of tightly knit Captain Ahabs in yellow raincoats. 

Nah, fast food. I toss burgers onto the charbroiler and make sandwiches. Everyone gets so damn bored that we start talking about personal subjects after a while.

[Im_CIA]

On 8/8/2021 at 11:26 PM, Shaddy said:

I haven't denied that. It's just not a very good one.
 

Fine, here is something more recent.

Comedy is in the eye of the beholder. But if a comedy is popular then you can make the argument that it is also 'good', so I'm making that argument.

 

 

On 8/8/2021 at 11:26 PM, Shaddy said:

That's literally the only thing you've been arguing against this whole time. Do you think we're trying to usher in speech laws or something? There is no part of this conversation where my position has not been "racism bad", and you, by saying that people being less racist will somehow hurt comedy, are making an argument for "racism sometimes good".

 

It wasn't a very strong argument for minstrel shows, either.

Minstrel shows were stage productions and The Poisonous Mushroom *was* a children's book. But they had obvious ulterior motives that comedies for the sake of comedy don't.

[Shaddy]

On 8/10/2021 at 6:27 AM, Im_Unemployed said:

Comedy is in the eye of the beholder. But if a comedy is popular then you can make the argument that it is also 'good', so I'm making that argument.

Well wait, I thought it was supposed to be losing popularity, and that's why anti-racism was a threat to it? And if it is a threat, doesn't that mean that because it's becoming more popular, non-racist comedy is just better anyway?

On 8/10/2021 at 6:27 AM, Im_Unemployed said:

Minstrel shows were stage productions and The Poisonous Mushroom *was* a children's book. But they had obvious ulterior motives that comedies for the sake of comedy don't.

Well, says who? Seems to me like either the motive is the same or it doesn't matter. I believe we've already discussed how "they don't mean it" isn't a real defense.

[Im_CIA]

On 8/10/2021 at 4:18 PM, Shaddy said:

Well wait, I thought it was supposed to be losing popularity, and that's why anti-racism was a threat to it? And if it is a threat, doesn't that mean that because it's becoming more popular, non-racist comedy is just better anyway?

 

You got me in the first 25%. But anti-racism isn't a threat to it, politically correct zealotry is. Some "non-racist" comedy is better, some of it is not. When comedy is done for the sake of comedy, you can't attach any performance metric to it other than how many people enjoy it.
 

Quote

Well, says who? Seems to me like either the motive is the same or it doesn't matter. I believe we've already discussed how "they don't mean it" isn't a real defense.

I don't know, Ironically enough I think that it's a difference of open-mindedness. If intention doesn't matter, what differentiates something like Starship Troopers from actual fascist propaganda?