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ROSS'S GAME DUNGEON: THE CREW

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OOOOOOOOOOOOH I GET IT NOW

 

what the fuck

 

i had to re-read the post to get it, but man, i really hope that guy just, REALLY likes deus ex or something, maybe he didn't realize, i don't know

yeah ok i am feeling a little bit more insane right now, thanks, just had shivers about it, don't wanna think about that anymore, yeesh

 

can we talk about the color filters again, please

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This is gaslighting. At best, you're being hypocritical and strawmanning me without meaning to.

 

gaslighting = putting words in your mouth?

 

sorry i never really heard of the term, i never really understood what "straw manning" ment either

Akamia has it right, though I would clarify that gaslighting is specifically saying something that was known to happen didn't happen, or vice-versa. It's trying to enforce the notion that the reality you know happened never happened. So if you think you went to the store last week and I say that you never went to the store even though you did, that's gaslighting. It gets its name from the movie Gaslight, where a character doing this is the main plot of the movie.

 

Straw man is also as he said. If you argue something, and I restate it as something similar, but not the same, then argue against that, that's a straw man argument. It gets the name from being like a scarecrow, rather than argue against the original, you argue against the imitation, as though it were made out of straw. Saying I think Human Revolution is a bad game because it has a different clothing, anime influences, and has different politics than mine is pretty much a textbook definition of it. Those were never my arguments, it was more complex than that, but they're being represented as though that was my stance.

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This is gaslighting. At best, you're being hypocritical and strawmanning me without meaning to.

 

gaslighting = putting words in your mouth?

 

sorry i never really heard of the term, i never really understood what "straw manning" ment either

Akamia has it right, though I would clarify that gaslighting is specifically saying something that was known to happen didn't happen, or vice-versa. It's trying to enforce the notion that the reality you know happened never happened. So if you think you went to the store last week and I say that you never went to the store even though you did, that's gaslighting. It gets its name from the movie Gaslight, where a character doing this is the main plot of the movie.

 

Straw man is also as he said. If you argue something, and I restate it as something similar, but not the same, then argue against that, that's a straw man argument. It gets the name from being like a scarecrow, rather than argue against the original, you argue against the imitation, as though it were made out of straw. Saying I think Human Revolution is a bad game because it has a different clothing, anime influences, and has different politics than mine is pretty much a textbook definition of it. Those were never my arguments, it was more complex that, but they're being represented as though that was my stance.

 

sure i got that, but thanks, the details help a bit more, never really used or heard these terms myself, just seems a bit unusual to me still, and i stumbled on the movie

 

should i watch the 1940 one or the 1944 one? it looks interesting enough

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0031359/

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036855/

 

I just think it's kinda fucked up in a way, sheesh it's just some random internet forum, I never knew people could get that low over a game.

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The original Deus Ex was all about conspiracy the[/size]ories about the corporate elite controlling society from the shadows being true—i.e it flattered your politics. Human Revolution was about discrimination, and that was not to your taste, so you weren’t interested; you picked apart the idea of augmentation as a basis for discrimination, but you felt little need to pick apart the conspiracy theories in the original. So using the idea of augmented people being discriminated against as a signpost for discrimination in our society is no good because it’s not realistic; but using conspiracy theories as a signpost for the problematic concentration of power around the wealthy in our society is A-OK, even if those conspiracy theories are unrealistic.
Look, I don't know if you're doing it on purpose, but the reality is what you're doing is gaslighting. We're not going to have a productive conversation from that.

 

You say "I felt little need to pick apart the conspiracy theories from the original." Is that what you call me quoting Eisenhower, giving figures on the military industrial complex, large media conglomerate merging, analyzing the shift in terrorism coverage, and how new institutions were formed and constitutional rights were altered after. If that's not picking things apart enough, I think you'll have to look elsewhere for more serious coverage of a videogame.

 

The original had MANY themes, conspiracy theories being one of them. I outright dismissed some things as "fun game stuff" when talking about the stories, not meant to be taken very seriously and said as much in the video. Things like the greys, augmentation, giant mechs, exploding men in black, etc. For the most part, the game didn't take those elements very seriously either. I'd say the game took themes like terrorism, poverty, disease, role of government power, etc. more seriously and I tried to touch on some of those also. I WAS critical of things like the police tactics, as I was in Human Revolution also.

 

In Human Revolution, it basically just had ONE theme, transhumanism, with discrimination being a part of that. I didn't think the premise was very believable, so I was critical of it because the game itself was treating it seriously. Even if I was suspending my disbelief however, I found the human behavior unbelievable also, so I found it failing on both levels. Hacking for example, was more of a fun game element, which neither the game nor I took very seriously, thus I wasn't critical of it. The clothing is an example where by itself, would simply be a fun game element, but in a prequel, it was a clear divergence from the source material thematically. I only took apart the theme of augmentation because the game itself took it so seriously. It's not the theme of discrimination I have a problem with, it's handling it poorly as a sole theme in an already established franchise that was known for a more multi-dimensional look at the world.

 

The basis of your argument so far is attributing things to me that I didn't do when I did do them, or that I did do when I didn't do them. Again, I'm not saying you're doing this intentionally, but you're basically characterizing me as someone else in your mind, then arguing that. That's not an honest way of conducting a conversation, I don't really see the point of continuing this if that's your approach.

 

1. I was pointing out that you said you were shocked that the game received almost no coverage or hype— I simply explained why you really shouldn’t be surprised.

2. I never said there wasn’t a niche for this sort of game, just that you shouldn’t really be surprised it’s small. Euro Truck Simulator sold 300k; Need for Speed: Most Wanted sold 16 million.

3. I didn’t say that that wasn’t the target demographic, just that you really shouldn’t be surprised it isn’t very big.

And again, we have sort of a less direct form of gaslighting.

 

First off, Euro Truck Simulator 2 sold 4.5 million copies. I would not call that "extremely niche", and it undermines your other points, but it's clear you thought I was talking about the original at 300k copies, so fine, let's go with that. Your original statements say:

 

"Surely, you must realize that almost no one plays driving games to aimlessly drive through the environments, no matter how nice they are."

"For most people (at least the ones this game was aimed at) if they wanted to go on a road trip they would just go on one."

 

but then you go and say:

 

"I didn’t say that that wasn’t the target demographic, just that you really shouldn’t be surprised it isn’t very big."

 

You JUST SAID the people that this game was aimed at are people who don't care about driving around aimlessly in the environment, then you reply and say you DIDN'T say that people who care about the environment aren't the target demographic. Well logically, they CAN'T be the target demographic if they're not being aimed at, in your words. Except, now you're saying the exact opposite, and claiming you didn't say anything to the contrary, except you did.

 

 

 

This is gaslighting. At best, you're being hypocritical and strawmanning me without meaning to. At worst, you're just trolling. Either way, this isn't how you conduct an honest conversation, so I'm not going further with it. I'll never convince you the sky is blue if you see it as green and are claiming I said it's red.

 

I originally tried to address some of points you talked about on HR, but I realize this is just an endless spiral.

 

You’re right about The Crew, that was my bad, What I should’ve said was “the demographic that most driving games are aimed at.” I suppose I was wrong about the extent of the demographic for this sort of driving game.

 

I am not trolling and I was trying to have a discussion in good faith, but now you’ve accused me of deliberately trying to drive you insane. I don’t come here to be insulted, so I’m done with this conversation.

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Well now that that drama is over can we get back to the more pressing issue. The release of less compressed version of this video! How about the 10GB or 5GB version Ross?

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I just think it's kinda fucked up in a way, sheesh it's just some random internet forum, I never knew people could get that low over a game.

 

I was by no means trying to gaslight anyone.

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I just think it's kinda fucked up in a way, sheesh it's just some random internet forum, I never knew people could get that low over a game.

 

I was by no means trying to gaslight anyone.

Alright, my apologies. FWIW I actually agree with you in that it seems a large portion of my fanbase seems less critical. I try my best not to take that for granted. People are free to challenge any of my claims, but I don't like having my statements misrepresented either if you follow the difference. In other words, I don't like being attacked for what I never said.

 

The release of less compressed version of this video! How about the 10GB or 5GB version Ross?
I guess I'll just release the 10GB version, I can see the compression on parts in the 5GB copy. Even the 10GB probably has some minor loss, but I'm sure it's night and day compared to Youtube. I may host it elsewhere since things are going to be changing soon on the site. I'll release it and the green screen segment people wanted in a couple days and have a post here.

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I just think it's kinda fucked up in a way, sheesh it's just some random internet forum, I never knew people could get that low over a game.

 

I was by no means trying to gaslight anyone.

Alright, my apologies.

 

The release of less compressed version of this video! How about the 10GB or 5GB version Ross?
I guess I'll just release the 10GB version, I can see the compression on parts in the 5GB copy. Even the 10GB probably has some minor loss, but I'm sure it's night and day compared to Youtube. I may host it elsewhere since things are going to be changing soon on the site. I'll release it and the green screen segment people wanted in a couple days and have a post here.

 

I’m sorry for not being more careful in the wording of my critique. I think I will probably never agree with you about HR, but I respect you as a content creator and like your stuff a lot, so the last thing I would want is for you to think I was trying to troll you.

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This is gaslighting. At best, you're being hypocritical and strawmanning me without meaning to. At worst, you're just trolling.

You are talking to a person who considers himself a "game critic", despite not having played one of the most famous and praised games in gaming history, AND also considers normal to utter his views ex cathedra about a game he never even played. Turning my armchair psychologist mode on, I'd say it's not a case of trolling, but a simple delusion of grandeur. Gotta respect the Hanlon's razor.

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I actually agree with you in that it seems a large portion of my fanbase seems less critical. I try my best not to take that for granted.

Lack of critique is only bad when it leads to star sickness, which is not your case (so far).

In programming they say "do not fix what is not broken", and the same applies to criticizing creators.

Your worldview happens to coincide with mine on 99%, so *I* want you to continue doing things exactly in the same way as you did during last 11 years.

This is just my opinion as a fan, one of many thousands. But here is the thing: there are so many content creators today, that if you don't quite like someone, you should just go watch someone else instead of trying to cram this certain creator into the Procrustean bed of your own tastes.

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I’m sorry for not being more careful in the wording of my critique. I think I will probably never agree with you about HR, but I respect you as a content creator and like your stuff a lot, so the last thing I would want is for you to think I was trying to troll you.

 

it's ok, i think it was probably an over reaction overall anyway

meh, it's just a videogame anyway, just pretend you hugged it over or something :lol:

 

man you guys can get real intense sometimes, i was mostly surprised by the terms though, and less by the posts themselves, i kinda band wagoned in the end in hopes that you guys would get over it hopefully :lol:

 

anyway i forgiv u all ok

 

In programming they say "do not fix what is not broken", and the same applies to criticizing creators.

 

meh, that's just a lazy approach to not bother cleaning up and organizing your code base from what i've seen in most cases, in my mind at least

and, adding new features pretty much breaks the whole thing, i see that being thrown around as an excuse for poor design in most cases

 

my say is just, "try to good a good job" and "change anything that bothers you", always helped, and starting from scratch can help me find wierd solutions i would've never thought of, i feel like actively working on a problem over and over again, can be helpful, it can bring out new unusual solutions nobody could think of, which can often turn out to be better, and generally i just try to keep things simple, if possible

 

i don't know, to me it implies that, you should also never bother to improve what you already have, because you can't be bothered to figure out a better solution, or because you are too afraid to break something

 

i don't think literally starting from scratch is the solution, but taking things apart, and keeping the stuff you want to focus on separated from everything else can help, you can still use the old stuff as a base, but it's easier to see how things flow if you start new, no point in throwing the old work out though, but it might help you spot a problem you missed a long time ago, while you were working on this system

 

by scratch i mean, you just try to re-do the same thing, but in a different way, in a clean environment, like it would probably take an ungodly ammount of time to remake win 10 from scratch, but you could take parts of it out, and gradually work through the whole system, while you clean things up slowly and methodically

 

it's just text, who cares if you break something anyway? you'll always screw up somewhere, you are not a robot, just arm yourself with a ton of patience

 

i just hate that saying, it's too careless, what are you going to do when, something DOES go horribly wrong?

or when you do spot a horrible design flaw, do you just ignore it and do you build your system around the flaw?

 

i feel like, if you want the source engine, then sure ok, you could do this (and source film maker, good god the ui for that is just, not easy to use)

 

it wouldn't surprise me if people did that, no wonder some games break when you just sneeze

i know gta v does some pretty wierd stuff for an AAA game (i think the game checks if every car has a rocket or something, i don't remember, it was kinda silly)

 

the source engine feels like it was superglued with a whole bunch of giraffes, i mean, don't fix it, it's not broken, kinda, technically, i don't know... :lol:

(giraffes? because they just sort of keep dangling around? i mean it works, it's horrifying, but why would you do that)

 

"hey it might piss you off, but it works, 10 times out of 16 and a half" - valve, probably

 

when someone says "nope not broke, donut fix", i just immagine windows 10 and the source engine giraffes (tall necks, unreachable goals? yes? giraffe analogies? no?)

 

despite not having played one of the most famous and praised games in gaming history, AND also considers normal to utter his views ex cathedra about a game he never even played.

 

i don't know what "ex cathedra" means, sorry, but i don't mind it when people post their thoughts, even if they didn't get to play a game for too long (or if they skipped a game in the series)

 

some people tend to miss out on the smallest details, and everything just kinda blends in, after they have played a game for too long

i'm always ok with extremelly fresh insight, i think it can be really valuable if done well

 

it can be difficult to explain what your thoughts truly were, when you experience something for the first time

if you don't write it down, as soon as possible, then your memories will most likely fade away pretty quickly

 

it's a difficult feeling which i can't really explain, it's part of the learning experience i guess

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The release of less compressed version of this video! How about the 10GB or 5GB version Ross?
I guess I'll just release the 10GB version, I can see the compression on parts in the 5GB copy. Even the 10GB probably has some minor loss, but I'm sure it's night and day compared to Youtube. I may host it elsewhere since things are going to be changing soon on the site. I'll release it and the green screen segment people wanted in a couple days and have a post here.

 

 

Great, I can't wait!

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The release of less compressed version of this video! How about the 10GB or 5GB version Ross?
I guess I'll just release the 10GB version, I can see the compression on parts in the 5GB copy. Even the 10GB probably has some minor loss, but I'm sure it's night and day compared to Youtube. I may host it elsewhere since things are going to be changing soon on the site. I'll release it and the green screen segment people wanted in a couple days and have a post here.

If you're getting significant visual artifacts at 1080p above 3gb/hr you need to check your settings, or get a different encoder. It shouldn't be giving noticeable artifacts (outside of pausing and doing frame comparisons) at that rate.

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The release of less compressed version of this video! How about the 10GB or 5GB version Ross?
I guess I'll just release the 10GB version, I can see the compression on parts in the 5GB copy. Even the 10GB probably has some minor loss, but I'm sure it's night and day compared to Youtube. I may host it elsewhere since things are going to be changing soon on the site. I'll release it and the green screen segment people wanted in a couple days and have a post here.

If you're getting significant visual artifacts at 1080p above 3gb/hr you need to check your settings, or get a different encoder. It shouldn't be giving noticeable artifacts (outside of pausing and doing frame comparisons) at that rate.

I think you're speaking very generally, but I'm fine with sending a sample if you want to test it yourself. You have to understand, this is about as demanding as it gets for video compression. It's constant motion with lots of details, especially from things like grass and leaves. Due to them being hard pixels, this compresses more poorly than normal film. I'd have to be encoding static before it got worse than this. I used HIGHER video quality settings than this (RF 17) for A New Beginning, and due to its largely static content, that entire episode, with audio, was a little over 500MB. Filesize from quality based encoding varies WILDLY depending on the content.

 

As for my compression techniques, they're very standardized. I'm using Handbrake x264 compression with the "high" preset.

 

Another thing to consider is Youtube itself wasn't handling this video well at all. I've seen similar cases of other videos from The Crew.

 

EDIT:

I've uploaded 30 seconds of the forest driving (one of the more demanding sections) losslessly compressed using the UT video codec here (3.5GB download):

 

http://accursedfarms.com/temp/crew_forest_lossless.avi

 

The audio has been removed, so it's just the video portion. By all means tell me what compression settings I should try. Using the "high" preset at RF quality 20, that comes to about 226MB. I can still tell there's compression by looking at it (not analyzing it frame by frame, just watching it), but not distractingly so.

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Holey moley that 30sec clip is a nightmare :D Really, really high frequency detail is everywhere in the 2D plane (tiny leaves) and the lighting patchwork flickers every few frames in the temporal domain (unsmoothed low-res shadows).

 

I tried several encoding runs yesterday using ffmpeg & x264. The codec is hopeless at trying to surrepticiously discard content, so I tried some preprocessing. Nothing but downscaling or blurring the video (to get rid of all the HF content) works.

 

Maybe trying to coax the motion predictor a bit more could help, I might try that.

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Great... Your video corrupted my converter install... lol

 

Gonna take me a while longer to "reacquire" the converter.

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