Jump to content

"Games as a service" is fraud.

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

I just think this whole "lease" system for software is complete bullshit, I feel like Games as a Service \ Software as a Service is only used to just confuse people. When the whole system is in reality just a huge rip off. It's not like I'm leasing a house, I get that I have to leave the house, but why would I no longer be able to use the software I put a 1000$ bucks into.

 

And if you think that you have to lease your house or apartment forever, well...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-to-own

 

If houses can do it, why won't software do it?

 

Spoiler

Because it's a giant rip offfff. It makes them moneeeeeeeyyyy.

 

It's not like they are using the extra cash to improve the software anyway, they are just sitting on it.

Edited by RaTcHeT302

Share this post


Link to post

Only just got you in my recommendations, and unfortunately, you've made a big legal slip up regardless of where you are. The big thing is, you still own the "body" as you kept refering to it as, the companies running the brain never take the body away from you. Ever. If you excersise your right to modify and reverse-engineer the product you paid for, after signing an EULA (which is legally a contract, if the law can be bent to accomidate the contract, it is), they revoke your connection to the brain, they revoke the service part. The caveat is, you DO still own your licence, and software. You can modify, change or reverse-engineer all you want. That licence still works to make the software you own yours, just not in a full capacity. You pay for both a good (the licence to the software part) AND the service (to the server software). They can take the service away at any point, as per their EULA. They are not obligated to give you that part (the server software) at the end of the service's cycle, as it is NOT part of the good your licence gives you.

HOWEVER, as a consumer, a lot of this is obfuscated and there may be (depending on location) laws about the "reasonable person" to expect such an ending to a games cycle, I'd love it if businesses posted source/unencrypted server software but i doubt they'd do it without incentive. I'd guess the best way to do this, it to incentivise them to get paid to end the games life, and leave it with the community. I'm pretty sure a campain for "oh hey, raise (£/$/....) 100,000 and we'll give the code out for all to use/change/adapt/redistribute without the need to buy it!" OR "we'll licence the server software for £/$/....X000 per sale" they'd be much more on board with it.

 

I'm just a random guy on the internet, I hope this information doesn't dissuade you from fighting, but without a legal footing, I'm sorry to see you defeated.

Share this post


Link to post
31 minutes ago, stichman34 said:

Only just got you in my recommendations, and unfortunately, you've made a big legal slip up regardless of where you are. The big thing is, you still own the "body" as you kept refering to it as, the companies running the brain never take the body away from you. Ever. If you excersise your right to modify and reverse-engineer the product you paid for, after signing an EULA (which is legally a contract, if the law can be bent to accomidate the contract, it is), they revoke your connection to the brain, they revoke the service part. The caveat is, you DO still own your licence, and software. You can modify, change or reverse-engineer all you want. That licence still works to make the software you own yours, just not in a full capacity. You pay for both a good (the licence to the software part) AND the service (to the server software). They can take the service away at any point, as per their EULA. They are not obligated to give you that part (the server software) at the end of the service's cycle, as it is NOT part of the good your licence gives you.

HOWEVER, as a consumer, a lot of this is obfuscated and there may be (depending on location) laws about the "reasonable person" to expect such an ending to a games cycle, I'd love it if businesses posted source/unencrypted server software but i doubt they'd do it without incentive. I'd guess the best way to do this, it to incentivise them to get paid to end the games life, and leave it with the community. I'm pretty sure a campain for "oh hey, raise (£/$/....) 100,000 and we'll give the code out for all to use/change/adapt/redistribute without the need to buy it!" OR "we'll licence the server software for £/$/....X000 per sale" they'd be much more on board with it.

 

I'm just a random guy on the internet, I hope this information doesn't dissuade you from fighting, but without a legal footing, I'm sorry to see you defeated.

This is all pointless, the product I paid for, was sold to me with the expectation that it would actually work, and what the hell, software isn't like a car which you just chuck into a junkyard, once it starts to break down. Software cannot decay, there's absolutely no excuses as to why this practice should exist in the first place, you can overly complicate it as much as you'd like to, but in the end, I bought something, that's broken by default, this is what games as a service tells me more or less.

 

Hell, it's as if the car dealership, arbitrarily decided to go into my home, rob me blind of my money, take my car keys, steal my car engine, but hold on! The contract says that they can do that! Stupid me! I should've known!

 

Of course they can just rob me blind for no reason at all, when they feel like it! BECAUSE THAT'S PERFECTLY NORMAL.

 

No. Just, that's complete bullshit. I think there are a ton of legal angles this can be approached from, it's just that most people aren't exactly creative enough to think out of the box, I think a competent lawyer would 100% have a good case. We can make the law work for us.

 

I don't care what some dumb pretend YouTube lawyer says, those guys don't care about us anyway. They basically gave up almost instantly, and they just left us to be eaten by the hounds. I think this needs to be adressed, before the situation gets way worse.

 

SOFTWARE SHOULD NOT STOP WORKING, ONCE AN ARBITRARY AMOUNT OF TIME HAS PASSED. IT'S BULLSHIT.

 

Either give me my money back, or you pretty much just scammed me.

 

Your average Joe, sure as fucking hell won't expect his game to randomly stop working. Seriously, if grandma decided to buy Puzzle Agent, and if one day the computer decided to just, not let her play the game anymore, because it said so, how do you think grandma would react honestly? This is so appaling, how can anyone even defend this is beyond me.

 

We need to cut it out with this crap defeatism attitude, there are solutions, this can be done properly.

 

Fucking hell, look at Venezuela, look at Photoshop.

https://helpx.adobe.com/la/x-productkb/policy-pricing/executive-order-venezuela.html

 

HOW DOES THIS NOT PROVE THAT THIS IS A GIANT SCAM??? SOFTWARE WHICH THEY PAID FOR ENTIRE YEARS, HAS LITERALLY BEEN TAKEN AWAY FROM THEM. WHY???

 

Sorry, I'm just speechless at how stupid this whole thing is. I just refuse to accept this bullshit reality.

Edited by RaTcHeT302

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

This is all pointless, the product I paid for, was sold to me with the expectation that it would actually work, and what the hell, software isn't like a car which you just chuck into a junkyard, once it starts to break down, software cannot decay, there's absolutely no excuses as to why this practice should exist in the first place, you can overly complicate it all as much as you'd like to, but in the end, I bought something, that's broken by default, this is what games as a service tells me more or less.

 

Hell, it's as if the car dealership, arbitrarily decided to go into my home, rob me blind of my money, take my car keys, steal my car engine, but hold on! The contract says that they can do that! Stupid me! I should've known!

 

Of course they can just rob me blind for no reason at all, when they feel like! BECAUSE THAT'S NORMAL.

 

No. Just, that's complete bullshit. I think there are a ton of legal angles this can be approached from, it's just that most people aren't exactly creative enough to think out of the box, I think a competent lawyer would 100% have a good case. We can make the law work for us.

 

I don't care what some dumb pretend YouTube lawyer says, those guys don't care about us anyway.

 

SOFTWARE SHOULD NOT STOP WORKING, ONCE AN ARBITRARY AMOUNT OF TIME HAS PASSED. IT'S BULLSHIT.

 

Either give me my money back, or you pretty much just scammed me.

 

Of course, I agree with you. But this is a new state of product selling, it's a product with an end point, and the service with that is free as long as you abide by their rules. We CAN make the law work for us, but law is slow (2003 consensual act, yes it is that late) especially digital laws. The problem here now isn't "can we make the current law work for us" because it doesn't, now the problem is "how can we add/modify laws that exist, to protect the consumer" and that's not a law student problem, that's a high court, and a government problem. Our best shots are: Incentivise companies to place source code (minimum effort as posted in video) OR community outcry, be vocal, but as usually happens, it sticks around, and then it gets boring (microtransaction, day 1 dlc, season passes, etc). Loot boxes got fought against because people were loud. Loud enough, that investigations were made, and laws adapted. We need that again. Jimquizition (for all his faults) is still angry and live services, but he's the kind of person we need. Keep being angry, keep fighting back cause if we stop and suffer in silence, it'll get worse.

Share this post


Link to post
On 11/5/2019 at 11:48 AM, stichman34 said:

Only just got you in my recommendations, and unfortunately, you've made a big legal slip up regardless of where you are. The big thing is, you still own the "body" as you kept refering to it as, the companies running the brain never take the body away from you. Ever. If you excersise your right to modify and reverse-engineer the product you paid for, after signing an EULA (which is legally a contract, if the law can be bent to accomidate the contract, it is)

EULAs are not legal contracts and are not legally binding. This has been tested in court multiple times with the courts ruling that an EULA cannot overrule actual laws and ownership rights. Some countries also have it as law that any terms which are not displayed on the exterior of a package cannot possible be agreed to and therefore carry no weight.

 

Quote

they revoke your connection to the brain, they revoke the service part. The caveat is, you DO still own your licence, and software. You can modify, change or reverse-engineer all you want. That licence still works to make the software you own yours, just not in a full capacity. You pay for both a good (the licence to the software part) AND the service (to the server software). They can take the service away at any point, as per their EULA. They are not obligated to give you that part (the server software) at the end of the service's cycle, as it is NOT part of the good your licence gives you.

 

I think Ross has that part understood. He goes into detail about it in his videos.

 

 

 

Jim Sterling recently put out a video about a game becoming unplayable due to its DRM-authentication servers going offline, upsetting many people still playing the game. In this case, I think Disney is looking into patching-in a solution so owners can still install their game.

Something similar happened with TrackMania Sunrise, where the decrepit DRM doesn't work on OSes newer than Windows Vista and so people can't easily install and play the game.

Edited by Delicieuxz

Share this post


Link to post

I'm more annoyed about the fact that, people are only taking this problem seriously now, even though crap like this has happened before, with thousands of other games, but better late than never I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

I think Disney is looking into patching-in a solution so owners can still install their game.

All they need to do is remove the calls to SecuRom. It's been done by many Steam publishers. In fact they could just upload one of the cracked executables floating around and call it a day. (not that they would, but either way it's not much work)

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

I'm more annoyed about the fact that, people are only taking this problem seriously now, even though crap like this has happened before, with thousands of other games, but better late than never I guess.

That's because there are more games that get broken DRM systems, and WAY more people playing games now. This is the largest adult population that plays video games yet, which is going to start pushing the market in ways never before seen, and likely not entirely predictable ones either.

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, BTGBullseye said:

That's because there are more games that get broken DRM systems, and WAY more people playing games now. This is the largest adult population that plays video games yet, which is going to start pushing the market in ways never before seen, and likely not entirely predictable ones either.

lot's of people played TrackMania too : (

Edited by RaTcHeT302

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.