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THE GUI SHOULD BE BETTER

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1 hour ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

what if you just straight up do not have a mouse with more buttons?

 

you should design an user interface with the general standard in mind, it's a huge gamble to assign basic functionality to advanced or non standard controls

 

and the minimum should be, two mouse buttons

I know this is an outdated thing to bring up, but Apple still had one button mice as the standard until the mid-late 2000s. Granted, Microsoft has had that standard for a while, but standards can improve over time depending on market interest. Just searching "computer mouse" on Amazon gives nearly half of the results featuring mice with Mouse4 and 5, some even less than $10. I also think it's safe to assume that if someone's installing custom dock programs for the purpose of increasing efficiency, then they already have a mouse with at least 5 buttons on it since being able to go forward or back while web-browsing with a single button press is a leap a lot of us can't abandon once we've experienced it, and a lot of mainstream games like Doom and Overwatch have the default melee button as Mouse4 if it detects it. Besides, assuming the software is easily configurable, which it should be, the user can just rebind it to Mouse2 or . . .

1 hour ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

this is stupid but i avoid having the user click his scroll wheel, since from my own experience, my damn scroll wheel always breaks at one point, they are all so poorly made and they never last, and i know that it's stupid but, i'd rather redesign the whole thing so that you can use it with only the mouse buttons

. . . You raise a good point. It's not stupid. Nearly every regular desktop mouse I have, and even most gaming mice I've used have had the scroll wheel give out over time if not just break entirely. Just to clarify, I'm not advocating for activating the circle dock with the scroll wheel, merely flicking through the options with the rolling of the scroll wheel, which just lines up more ergonomically with my mode of thinking.

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9 minutes ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

i've also seen people who are into computer tech, who are elderly, who even though, have used computers since they existed, they still struggle to do really basic shit, and the truth is, that most people are kinda dumb, and in most cases, most people aren't curious enough to find out, what those other buttons do, and a ton of people lack even the most basic level of intuition, meaning that, those buttons half the time, just sit there unused for most people, just because the buttons are included in the hardware, it doesn't mean that most people actually use them for much of anything

The same could be said of right click. This resonates with me, since I've tried to teach family members how to use computers effectively, and even to those who were relatively intelligent and were able to grasp that searching on the internet and on your hard-drive were different things, how to favorite webpages, and even a couple hotkeys were completely foreign to something as simple as right click, so I get where you're coming from. However, that doesn't mean that we should stifle the possibilities of interaction because a fraction can't figure out how to use buttons that their fingers are already resting on.

16 minutes ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

plus my point was more about, the idea that if the whole user interface can be controlled with just two buttons, that it's probably pretty well made in the first place, a ton of user interfaces, force you to use hotkeys, and i personally hate hiding functionality behind a hotkey, unless it's really generic, like the esc key to open a menu

Simplicity is a beautiful thing, don't get me wrong. I'm just of the belief that more can be accomplished faster when there are more input methods. Two additional mouse buttons I think is the maximum one should have for a standard anyway, since any more will border on the obtuse by conventional standards. And I can agree, a Graphic User Interface should consist of GRAPHICS! What a thought, right?

Plus, two additional mouse buttons could be enough to allow developers to adapt. I'd much rather fiddle with the ~5 buttons on a mouse than the 100+ on a keyboard.

17 minutes ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

i feel like a ton of UIs have really finnicky camera systems most of the time, where you need to click 20 buttons just to get the camera to behave, how you want it to, and that's just bad design

As someone who jumped from GZDoom Builder to Blender, I know this pain all too well.

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51 minutes ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

controllers are cool because it's all just one thing, and we basically lack the equivalent of the directional pad, and we don't have an analog stick

I've been advocating for an analog stick+mouse solution for YEARS and I've only seen lackluster implementation, mainly due to a lot of games wanting to switch between controller inputs and KB+M inputs on the software side. It's great because it's another form of input that's the perfect bridge between a binary keystroke and the smoothness of a mouse movement. Perfect for page scrolling, controlling a camera, or movement in a game. I even sometimes use my PS4 controller for browsing the desktop since it can have similar accuracy to a mouse with the gyro controls.

1 hour ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

so the only thing that's left in theory is to, pretty much make the keyboard feel redundant, and to just basically delete it from existence, and to force the mouse to do everything

That's definitely one way to go about it. I'm sure if you trained hard enough you could type just as fast with a keyboard with a modern controller if it was implemented and thought out well. Look up Steam's petal typing interface if you want to get an idea of what it could be like. I still disagree since there's undoubtedly ergonomic value that a lot of people are already very well acquainted with when it comes to the keyboard and having a bunch of zippy movement across a gamepad could be faster, the straightforwardness of the keyboard isn't going away anytime soon.

43 minutes ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

anyway my last point is that, we can make good UIs if we wanted to, we just lack the hardware to do it properly in the first place

 

also i badly want a joystick on a mouse, it would help SO MUCH

Couldn't agree more, which is why I'm such an advocate for virtual desktop environments and hypothetical technology that doesn't exist yet.

You could also get a simulated directional pad on a mouse very easily by allowing the scroll wheel to tilt left or right, giving a similar enough functionality to a dpad.

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46 minutes ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

okay i found this to be really ironic, but that mouse is advertised as a GAMING mouse but man, that mouse screams productivity to me

 

and i was thinking, no way, this looks like it could be used for 3D modelling or something

AND LOOK WHAT I STUMBLED ON, JUST AS I WAS THINKING ABOUT THAT

Wouldn't surprise me, I found out about VR OS just from searching, "Virtual Reality OS" because Virtual desktop wasn't cutting it and I knew there had to be something better, even if it was in its infancy.

 

I see a lot of potential here, but I fear it'll have the same software conflict issues previous attempts to bridge the gap before. The tilting looks dope, but it could have the problem of being accidentally triggered if you're trying to use your mouse regularly. If they could add a tilting scroll wheel it would arrive somewhere near my ideal mouse.

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Made this account today for this express purpose, please hear me out here.

 

This whole blog post, alongside Ross's video has sparked a bit of a GUI revolution for me, to the point where I've spent nearly a week straight customizing and optimizing my setup. (Ignore the "CLEAN" in the bottom right, I don't have access to any useful image-editing software and had to rip this from some 3D modelling site to better capture what I was imagining while working on it)

image.thumb.png.fdec84289dd1be0cdc9ab7c6d4043f37.png

 

It's amateur and fairly barebones, but that's likely because I've been almost gimping myself through the whole thing. So far, the only meaningful changes I've made have been integrating Rainmeter and RadialMenu into my arsenal. See, I'm still a bit iffy on actually changing the default shell to anything else because I: 

  1. Am mildly paranoid of the whole thing bricking by fault of Microsoft©™®
  2. Lack confidence in any one given shell alternative, even after heaps of research

 

So this is almost a cry for help if anything. I need someone here to either convince me to change my shell (preferably with a strong recommendation), find a way a to make this and this act almost one-to-one, or a Rainmeter wizard needs to chime in and give me some pointers for beautification. That second part especially, because RadialMenu is SO GODDAMN CLOSE to working the way I think it could and very much should. It was originally developed with drawing tablets in mind, but got expanded to include just about anything. If anyone here could point this lowly wanderer of the vast emptiness that sits right outside GUI heaven in the right direction, please let me know.

 

Thanks.

Edited by Amplifier
Missed ONE word (see edit history)

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There is this thing that has been appearing on my radar recently.
I know that it's meant to be more as a joke or spectacle than an actual user interface, but maybe something actually usable will come out of it:

 

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On 10/14/2020 at 8:01 AM, RaTcHeT302 said:

anyway my last point is that, we can make good UIs if we wanted to, we just lack the hardware to do it properly in the first place

 

also i badly want a joystick on a mouse, it would help SO MUCH

 

EDIT:

 

WAIT WHAT THE HELL?? THIS DOES EXIST???

H4ChtDN.png

 

https://www.amazon.it/Lexip-Neptunium-Innovazione-Regolabile-Programmabili/dp/B084CRKMS9/

 

WHY THE HELL ISN'T THIS THE STANDARD FOR EVERYTHING

 

I WANT IT, I MUST HAVE IT

8tbmZVT.png

 

 

 

Probably because it's only available in europe. I can't find anywhere that will ship to the USA.

 

 

On 10/22/2020 at 1:23 PM, Amplifier said:

Made this account today for this express purpose, please hear me out here.

 

This whole blog post, alongside Ross's video has sparked a bit of a GUI revolution for me, to the point where I've spent nearly a week straight customizing and optimizing my setup. (Ignore the "CLEAN" in the bottom right, I don't have access to any useful image-editing software and had to rip this from some 3D modelling site to better capture what I was imagining while working on it)

image.thumb.png.fdec84289dd1be0cdc9ab7c6d4043f37.png

 

It's amateur and fairly barebones, but that's likely because I've been almost gimping myself through the whole thing. So far, the only meaningful changes I've made have been integrating Rainmeter and RadialMenu into my arsenal. See, I'm still a bit iffy on actually changing the default shell to anything else because I: 

  1. Am mildly paranoid of the whole thing bricking by fault of Microsoft©™®
  2. Lack confidence in any one given shell alternative, even after heaps of research

 

So this is almost a cry for help if anything. I need someone here to either convince me to change my shell (preferably with a strong recommendation), find a way a to make this and this act almost one-to-one, or a Rainmeter wizard needs to chime in and give me some pointers for beautification. That second part especially, because RadialMenu is SO GODDAMN CLOSE to working the way I think it could and very much should. It was originally developed with drawing tablets in mind, but got expanded to include just about anything. If anyone here could point this lowly wanderer of the vast emptiness that sits right outside GUI heaven in the right direction, please let me know.

 

Thanks.

 

....what am I even looking at?

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Greetings!

 

I'm also not happy with most GUI's, but I have managed to assign a mouse button to moving/resizing windows, and also to close windows and kill applications. So if an application is frozen and does not respond, I can kill it with a mouse button + scroll up: killing an app closes all its windows at once, which is kinda cool.

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10 hours ago, ardru said:

Greetings!

 

I'm also not happy with most GUI's, but I have managed to assign a mouse button to moving/resizing windows, and also to close windows and kill applications. So if an application is frozen and does not respond, I can kill it with a mouse button + scroll up: killing an app closes all its windows at once, which is kinda cool.

This makes me wish operating systems had a "kill all non-essential tasks" option.

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On 6/10/2020 at 9:04 AM, Ross Scott said:

If you ever wanted to know all my thoughts on the GUI, here you are!  This has honestly been brewing in my mind for decades and while this video took way too long to make, it's an accomplishment for me that I was able to put this into something coherent.  I'm really hoping this leads to somebody bestowing GUI enlightenment upon us, though I'm not betting on it.

This post also doubles as a thread for people to post any helpful information regarding my GUI quest at the end of the video.  Thanks in advance for anyone who finds some answers!

 

This is a blog post. To read the original post, please click here »

 

I don't know how I didn't see this video before, but I actually made some drawings of my "perfect gui system" a while back and I remember I kept refining the whole idea over a year, only to be disapointed when I actually went to set it up in windows because, well, windows is a customization pain. I'll have to find the papers again, they're in a bin somewhere, but I do know for a fact I have them. I'll go looking.


Also forgive me if I violate some "internet form laws" I don't know about, new to this shiz.

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Does anything here looks like an example of UI that Ross is looking for?
 

 

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22 minutes ago, testman said:

Does anything here looks like an example of UI that Ross is looking for?

It's been a while since I watched the Ross video, but I don't think this has anything to do with it.

Burn the World!

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