Rewards and grades harm learning and freedom

[BTGBullseye]

Just thought this would be a good topic.

[StrixLiterata]

I'm not finished watching your video, but I have this to say, as an Italian college student with ADHD, I have this to say: If I wasn't graded, I would never have found out I have ADHD, but I still found out very late in my life because my parents did not pay attention to the fact that my grades had been steadily declining since elementary school (unfortunately I was a "gifted kid", which meant that until college I didn't need to develop a work ethic).

In my opinion, the problem with your education system is that everything is graded, which leaves no room for error, and that often caretakers and teachers don't use grades as a starting point for noticing and solving problems.

[Im_CIA]

It's definitely not a perfect system, but I don't know any alternative that wouldn't dilute the job pool or academia.

[Shaddy]

There needs to be some criteria for letting kids and parents know how well a given kid is doing, but it's hard to determine exactly what that is, even harder to determine why. Consistent solutions are a pipe dream.

 

Even if you did determine it, you'd still be making the assumption that schools are teaching kids the right skills for a life they'll be comfortable with, which...that hasn't been my experience. They tend to throw them on the boomer/gen-x "work a boring desk job for 40 years, retire and die" career track, which is increasingly ill-suited for the gen-z crowd who aren't sure the world as we know it will even last forty years.

[Im_CIA]

On 6/25/2021 at 5:04 PM, Shaddy said:

They tend to throw them on the boomer/gen-x "work a boring desk job for 40 years, retire and die"

As opposed to breaking down boulders into gravel in Sierra Leone for 40 years.

[kerdios]

On 6/28/2021 at 7:36 PM, Im_CIA said:

As opposed to breaking down boulders into gravel in Sierra Leone for 40 years.

Nah, as opposed to start your own business and learn how to be solvent through real estate and stock investments.

[Shaddy]

On 6/28/2021 at 9:36 AM, Im_CIA said:

As opposed to breaking down boulders into gravel in Sierra Leone for 40 years.

Oh yeah, I forgot that better things are always impossible and one form of slave labor or the other is the only option that exists, so complaining about the status quo in any way is tantamount to demanding worse from the world. Thank you for reminding me. I am very certain this is how you go about any complaints you have about anything in your life and that you're totally consistent in your beliefs.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Shaddy (see edit history)

[Im_CIA]

On 6/28/2021 at 5:58 PM, Shaddy said:

Oh yeah, I forgot that better things are always impossible and one form of slave labor or the other is the only option that exists, so complaining about the status quo in any way is tantamount to demanding worse from the world.

 

Working for someone to make a living is not slavery. America is so much better off than the rest of the world that I just find it completely baffling that someone living here would rather change the world than change themselves.

 

 

On 6/28/2021 at 5:58 PM, Shaddy said:

Thank you for reminding me. I am very certain this is how you go about any complaints you have about anything in your life and that you're totally consistent in your beliefs.

 

Of course I have complaints about my life, but I know that the ball is in my court on that.

[Shaddy]

On 6/28/2021 at 4:05 PM, Im_CIA said:

Working for someone to make a living is not slavery.

Massive, largely incorrect oversimplification, but you'd just refuse to accept any case I made for it, so whatever.

On 6/28/2021 at 4:05 PM, Im_CIA said:

America is so much better off than the rest of the world that I just find it completely baffling that someone living here would rather change the world than change themselves.

If you find it baffling, it is within neither my responsibility nor my capability to fix you. Sorry for exposing you to the horror of other opinions. If you have a problem with a member of the world thinking different, maybe do some soul-searching and change yourself into someone who can understand that person.

On 6/28/2021 at 4:05 PM, Im_CIA said:

Of course I have complaints about my life, but I know that the ball is in my court on that.

Well you shouldn't. If you think anything about the life so graciously gifted to you by daddy capital is less than the greatest it could possibly be, you're basically asking to be a naked child stranded in the woods sucking the moisture out of moss.

 

This is the logic you are displaying here.

Edited June 29, 2021 by Shaddy (see edit history)

[BTGBullseye]

On 6/28/2021 at 5:05 PM, Im_CIA said:

Working for someone to make a living is not slavery.

A subject for a different thread. (and an issue which I will both agree and disagree with you on, as it's a complex issue) Feel free to start the thread if you would like a discussion on that topic.

[Im_CIA]

On 6/28/2021 at 10:18 PM, Shaddy said:

Well you shouldn't. If you think anything about the life so graciously gifted to you by daddy capital is less than the greatest it could possibly be, you're basically asking to be a naked child stranded in the woods sucking the moisture out of moss.

You're going about it all wrong. If you have an in-demand occupation then HR will walk around all sorts of eggshells to keep you happy. Getting back on topic, a better education system will make unskilled American(citizen) laborers far less of a demographic than they are now. The control valve for the menial labor pool should be the rate of immigration, which can be tightened or loosened depending on demand.

[Shaddy]

EDIT: nevermind, I should be above this, it's off-topic and will go nowhere. Remember kids, bad arguments are bait for liberals to dig into and platform the bad philosophy behind them.

Edited July 1, 2021 by Shaddy (see edit history)

[Im_CIA]

On 6/30/2021 at 4:01 PM, Shaddy said:

EDIT: nevermind, I should be above this, it's off-topic and will go nowhere. Remember kids, bad arguments are bait for liberals to dig into and platform the bad philosophy behind them.

 

It's bad to think people should ultimately be responsible for themselves? I believe the state should only provide people with the tools needed to compete (and a few safety nets), that's why I agree that education needs to be revamped with less focus on grades and more effort on discipline.  

Edited July 1, 2021 by Im_CIA (see edit history)

[Shaddy]

I think the burden of proof is on you to prove that forcing the population to 'compete' creates any sort of responsibility at all, rather than absolving the people who have already relied on stealing the autonomy and work of others for centuries of any real labor. Otherwise, you're just lying about whatever beliefs you need to to get to your foregone conclusion of "must be their fault the world they live in sucks".

Edited July 1, 2021 by Shaddy (see edit history)

[Wwen]

Cancel public education, it's styled after Prussian techniques to create obedient factory workers.

 

One either knows something or they don't. If you can add, divide, or count to 10 it becomes obvious without having to make someone do it 20 times as homework. Regardless, the underlying issues with edu in the US won't be fixed by not grading things. It will make it hard to track how well the US educators are doing though (not good). The US spends more per child than anyone else and most of it is spent on administrative costs. More money is isn't the problem. It's that the State has no incentive to give two shits about your kids. Public school is a prison for children and the first place most people encounter institutionalized violence.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Wwen (see edit history)