End of the world

[Selous Templar]

End of the world? Only for white people.

you are disgustingly ignorant and it's a wonder how you haven't been banned yet

 

Well the fact that you're so hostile towards that idea, and the fact that you're willing to ban him over suggesting the idea sort of proves his point exponentially.

[Alyxx Thorne]

No flame wars, please...

[rairii]

End of the world? Only for white people.

you are disgustingly ignorant and it's a wonder how you haven't been banned yet

 

Well the fact that you're so hostile towards that idea, and the fact that you're willing to ban him over suggesting the idea sort of proves his point exponentially.

His post was quite literally white genocide fearmongering. There was no point to it. Feel free to tell me what point I proved.

[Selous Templar]

His post was quite literally white genocide fearmongering. There was no point to it. Feel free to tell me what point I proved.

 

Well it was a rather overly-hostile reaction to his proposition, which I was saying sort of proves his point that the modern political left has it really out for "white people", seeing as how much they go raving on about "minorities" being oppressed and white supremacy around every corner, and how the majority of "white" Americans feel that they are discriminated against on a daily basis (which to some extent they are) (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/10/25/discrimination-white-americans-minorities-poll/801297001/).

It wasn't really "fear mongering" as it was an off the cuff sarcastic statement of how the political left has it out for "white people"

 

Not trying to start a flame war here, because god knows it's unnecessary, but there's no need to be so hostile over it, and I'm just providing an explanation for what he said.

 

If you beg to differ, please explain

[rairii]

If you beg to differ, please explain

I beg to differ because you replied to a post that was well over a year old with only the context of those two posts. This was back in late 2016 where the very same guy I was responding to had a reputation for prattling on about white genocide. I believe there was an entire thread about it which has since been deleted.

 

And there's a misunderstanding here, the political left doesn't have it out for white people, they have it out for people who don't recognize the privilege they have and a majority of white people out there vehemently reject the notion that white privilege exists.

[Selous Templar]

Well, it doesn't exist. "White privilege" is a bullshit marxist term that was created by post modernists to shame "white people" into the submission of minorities in their own countries.

Think about it, when was the last time you heard of Black privilege, or Asian privilege, or Hispanic privilege? Why only White privilege?

The whole concept is created on the back of bullshit racist identity politics that collectivities an entire race of people and says that any "white person" who doesn't acknowledge it is inherently racist.

"White people" don't acknowledge this marxist term because they see themselves as individuals and not as a collective, like the entire Alt-Left.

 

There isn't a "white genocide" going on, and those who say so are misinformed and overtly concerned for their race (buying into identity politics as well), but to deny that there is this social stigma towards "white people" in the West from the Alt-Left is very nieve.

 

This whole identity politics crap just needs to go away to the dustbin of history where it belongs.

[rairii]

Well, it doesn't exist. "White privilege" is a bullshit marxist term that was created by post modernists to shame "white people" into the submission of minorities in their own countries.

Think about it, when was the last time you heard of Black privilege, or Asian privilege, or Hispanic privilege? Why only White privilege?

The whole concept is created on the back of bullshit racist identity politics that collectivities an entire race of people and says that any "white person" who doesn't acknowledge it is inherently racist.

"White people" don't acknowledge this marxist term because they see themselves as individuals and not as a collective, like the entire Alt-Left.

1. White privilege does exist and you basically just demonstrated the exact reason why people reject it's existence. You're essentially afraid that the concept of white privilege only exists to shame white people for being white. Privilege isn't a bad thing, and less privileged people don't hate you for having it. They just find it disrespectful to see how you're taking advantage of it in day to day life without even recognizing that you have it. Marginalized groups don't have social privilege and that's why you don't hear about "black privilege" or "female privilege"

Social privilege isn't complicated to understand. There's an nice little thinkpiece here that explains white privilege in a way that's easy to understand and digest.

https://www.tolerance.org/professional-development/on-racism-and-white-privilege

2. "Identity politics" only exists because of social privilege and by extension people who reject the idea that it exists. You can't get rid of it until you can get rid of all forms of bigotry and social disadvantage for marginalized demographics. it's not going away until people start recognizing their social privilege and stop trying to brush it off like it doesn't exist.

[Templar Knight]

See, I disagree, "Privilege" of any kind is highly culturally subjective, but you don't hear of anyone talking of privilege in any context outside of "The West" because it doesn't exist as a concept outside it (And some of the textbooks I've read on the subjects even argue that its impossible for many Non-Whites to ever have privilege in any situation, which IMO is total BS.). And even if it does exist (which if it does, I wouldn't necessarily call it privilege), its IMO an inch away from a racist concept in and of itself.

 

Why? Because it assumes that all people of a certain race are "X". That is the essence of racist ideas. Its this sort of thinking and promoting it in any fashion is a personal theory of mine as to why racism is not dead, and likely won't die, because people are promoting the idea of being a racist without necessarily realizing it.

 

Nobody has any control over the race or sex they were born into, its entirely a lottery of genetics and souls which nobody has any power over. Does one choose where they are born, or what they born as? No. Its the luck of the draw, and arguably yes some are born with a better head start in life than others depending on the situation. But to me, "recognizing it" or bemoaning the fact that some don't, gets people nowhere. At best, you're stating the obvious (since in my experience, generally the majority group of people of a culture are the most likely ones to rise up within a culture and the most likely ones to be catered towards by the culture for no other reason than they are the majority. This is how pretty much all societies on Earth operated prior to this period of globalization, because this level of continuous cultural mixing has never occurred in all of human history, arguably), at worst its antagonizing people who do not feel like they're living a privileged existence at all.

 

Like me for example. I'm supposed to feel privileged about the fact that my future prospects increasingly look like shit for no reasons or faults of my own? I'm supposed to feel privileged about the fact that in order to get ahead of my generation's game, I basically just saved my money and denied myself much of the pleasures of my age group just to make life easier for myself later? Or I'm supposed to feel privileged about the fact that increasingly my opinion can be waved away as meaningless by people who think I'm privileged because I was born white and somehow am incapable of understanding a given matter or giving any input?

 

See how the disrespect can be a two-way street?

 

Pardon me, if I don't feel as privileged in my life as, say, the child of a wealthy African-American family. Their family worked for the position they have, they're lucky to have it, and I don't begrudge them for it, but I certainly don't feel more privileged than them today in any respect.

 

Everyone has their problems, I don't need people who don't know me condescending to me about what my life is when I don't mess with anyone else's business. Especially when it doesn't matter what I do to please them, they're still going to think I'm a racist and must self-flagellate myself for eternity.

 

Its also all a grand illusion. There will never be a scenario where all on Earth are 100% equal in every experience of their life, the Communists have tried before, all have failed to do anything other than make collective destitution. One will always be more fortunate than someone else, and therefore have "privilege" over someone else who is not so fortunate, for no other reason that that's how nature is. On a basic level, nature is not equal to all living things, it favours some over others in various situations, but that does not mean that it is impossible for one to survive instead of another.

 

That's also not to say I don't believe social problems shouldn't be striven towards fixing, society can always be improved, but that this way of thinking only antagonizes people and divides them along lines I do not think anyone desires a resurgence in.

 

The whole problem would evaporate if the governments could actually provide a situation where everyone could get decent paying, easily accessible jobs that people enjoy. But that's not reality, nor does it look like it will be at any point in the near future. But that is what the real core of this is about, largely.

 

I would also argue that social privilege of other types does now exist. It merely exists under the titles of "Affirmative Action", or "Diversity Quotas" rather than privilege, but its the same idea, you're favouring someone else for no reason other than factors which one has no control over, the only difference being that in these cases it is seen as "fair" because it is seen as a form of equalization. Because these sorts of people are constantly in the business of calling something one thing, while simultaneously calling it another for a different situation based on their moral compass.

 

I'm more worried that to encourage such thinking will only hinder people from ever returning to the ideas of meritocracy (which is the objectively most fair idea when put into principle, IMO), especially since many of them view even the concept of meritocracy itself as "white privilege".

 

Which is ultimately another problem, you have people who are getting so out of hand with these ideas that they're literally ascribing them, in some cases, to practically everything in "Western" society, when the reality is that they are more universal principles of human society at large. They're letting their hatred and untempered anger cloud their judgement and turn themselves into mirrors of the very things they despise, not to mention encourage those same despised people to grow in power as their way of thinking is justified.

 

Or especially to flip out over things that really don't matter to this issue. My go-to is the reaction over the "Its Okay to be White." Posters. By the Gods, you'd think those were plastered with Nazi imagery and featured a Klansmen hotline, and weren't just text on a blank page. People raved on and on about this, the irony being that its the perfect litmus test for this. Why should such a statement anger anyone? It shouldn't anger anyone regardless of what group of people is being stated on the page, if they aren't racist. But yet it did, because it was saying that its okay to be born white, and that apparently offends people. Had the reaction of that kind been towards any other stated group, they'd be called racists, yet nobody saw such accusations being thrown by most public figures in regards to the event. Yet some were so triggered, you'd have thought it was the end of their world.

 

Its this cognitive dissonance and inherent contradiction that will cause trouble in the future, just as similar types of such cognitive dissonance have throughout history as paradigms have shifted.

 

IDK, I'm rambling on. Hopefully I at least made some sense. This is a topic of fair interest to me as an Anthropologist, Historian, and amateur philosophizer.

[Selous Templar]

Templar Knight's post sums up everything I have against this marxist "white privilege" conspiracy perfectly

+rep

Edited January 8, 2018 by Guest (see edit history)

[BTGBullseye]

In response to Templar Knight:

 

[Selous Templar]

[rairii]

^Gonna have to ask that you guys stop posting stuff that doesn't contribute to the discussion in any meaningful way.

See, I disagree, "Privilege" of any kind is highly culturally subjective, but you don't hear of anyone talking of privilege in any context outside of "The West" because it doesn't exist as a concept outside it (And some of the textbooks I've read on the subjects even argue that its impossible for many Non-Whites to ever have privilege in any situation, which IMO is total BS.). And even if it does exist (which if it does, I wouldn't necessarily call it privilege), its IMO an inch away from a racist concept in and of itself.

 

Why? Because it assumes that all people of a certain race are "X". That is the essence of racist ideas. Its this sort of thinking and promoting it in any fashion is a personal theory of mine as to why racism is not dead, and likely won't die, because people are promoting the idea of being a racist without necessarily realizing it.

 

Nobody has any control over the race or sex they were born into, its entirely a lottery of genetics and souls which nobody has any power over. Does one choose where they are born, or what they born as? No. Its the luck of the draw, and arguably yes some are born with a better head start in life than others depending on the situation. But to me, "recognizing it" or bemoaning the fact that some don't, gets people nowhere. At best, you're stating the obvious (since in my experience, generally the majority group of people of a culture are the most likely ones to rise up within a culture and the most likely ones to be catered towards by the culture for no other reason than they are the majority. This is how pretty much all societies on Earth operated prior to this period of globalization, because this level of continuous cultural mixing has never occurred in all of human history, arguably), at worst its antagonizing people who do not feel like they're living a privileged existence at all.

 

Like me for example. I'm supposed to feel privileged about the fact that my future prospects increasingly look like shit for no reasons or faults of my own? I'm supposed to feel privileged about the fact that in order to get ahead of my generation's game, I basically just saved my money and denied myself much of the pleasures of my age group just to make life easier for myself later? Or I'm supposed to feel privileged about the fact that increasingly my opinion can be waved away as meaningless by people who think I'm privileged because I was born white and somehow am incapable of understanding a given matter or giving any input?

 

See how the disrespect can be a two-way street?

 

Pardon me, if I don't feel as privileged in my life as, say, the child of a wealthy African-American family. Their family worked for the position they have, they're lucky to have it, and I don't begrudge them for it, but I certainly don't feel more privileged than them today in any respect.

 

Everyone has their problems, I don't need people who don't know me condescending to me about what my life is when I don't mess with anyone else's business. Especially when it doesn't matter what I do to please them, they're still going to think I'm a racist and must self-flagellate myself for eternity.

 

Its also all a grand illusion. There will never be a scenario where all on Earth are 100% equal in every experience of their life, the Communists have tried before, all have failed to do anything other than make collective destitution. One will always be more fortunate than someone else, and therefore have "privilege" over someone else who is not so fortunate, for no other reason that that's how nature is. On a basic level, nature is not equal to all living things, it favours some over others in various situations, but that does not mean that it is impossible for one to survive instead of another.

 

That's also not to say I don't believe social problems shouldn't be striven towards fixing, society can always be improved, but that this way of thinking only antagonizes people and divides them along lines I do not think anyone desires a resurgence in.

 

The whole problem would evaporate if the governments could actually provide a situation where everyone could get decent paying, easily accessible jobs that people enjoy. But that's not reality, nor does it look like it will be at any point in the near future. But that is what the real core of this is about, largely.

 

I would also argue that social privilege of other types does now exist. It merely exists under the titles of "Affirmative Action", or "Diversity Quotas" rather than privilege, but its the same idea, you're favouring someone else for no reason other than factors which one has no control over, the only difference being that in these cases it is seen as "fair" because it is seen as a form of equalization. Because these sorts of people are constantly in the business of calling something one thing, while simultaneously calling it another for a different situation based on their moral compass.

 

I'm more worried that to encourage such thinking will only hinder people from ever returning to the ideas of meritocracy (which is the objectively most fair idea when put into principle, IMO), especially since many of them view even the concept of meritocracy itself as "white privilege".

 

Which is ultimately another problem, you have people who are getting so out of hand with these ideas that they're literally ascribing them, in some cases, to practically everything in "Western" society, when the reality is that they are more universal principles of human society at large. They're letting their hatred and untempered anger cloud their judgement and turn themselves into mirrors of the very things they despise, not to mention encourage those same despised people to grow in power as their way of thinking is justified.

 

Or especially to flip out over things that really don't matter to this issue. My go-to is the reaction over the "Its Okay to be White." Posters. By the Gods, you'd think those were plastered with Nazi imagery and featured a Klansmen hotline, and weren't just text on a blank page. People raved on and on about this, the irony being that its the perfect litmus test for this. Why should such a statement anger anyone? It shouldn't anger anyone regardless of what group of people is being stated on the page, if they aren't racist. But yet it did, because it was saying that its okay to be born white, and that apparently offends people. Had the reaction of that kind been towards any other stated group, they'd be called racists, yet nobody saw such accusations being thrown by most public figures in regards to the event. Yet some were so triggered, you'd have thought it was the end of their world.

 

Its this cognitive dissonance and inherent contradiction that will cause trouble in the future, just as similar types of such cognitive dissonance have throughout history as paradigms have shifted.

 

IDK, I'm rambling on. Hopefully I at least made some sense. This is a topic of fair interest to me as an Anthropologist, Historian, and amateur philosophizer.

 

It's fine, almost none of this comes off as rambling.

There's a lot to pick apart here but I like to keep my posts short and concise, so here I go.

I've noticed you have a very intuitive view of the situation, which is fair, but I think you're misunderstanding what I mean by privilege. When I say social privilege, I mean something that exists on a demographic level, and as such it doesn't protect you from depression, poverty, or even prejudice. It's just general advantages you get as the member of a primary demographic. For example, most men have an inherent financial advantage by not having to pay for menstrual hygiene products. On an individual level that privilege is essentially gone if you're a trans man or if you pay for your partner's tampons or pads.

Also, you're right, the world isn't necessarily fair and it never will be fair. The world would be an awfully boring place without a fight to fight so I'm content with that reality. Nobody is born equal and nobody can be made equal, everyone is different and that's extremely important to recognize.

[Templar Knight]

I'll try and keep my counter short as well. I do tend to go overboard a bit too much at times, even though some people still find it interesting or engaging.

 

I would agree on the idea that certain people are born inherently with certain advantages over others and that not by any means are we all born into the same circumstances, all of it being specific from culture to culture and society to society, obviously. But IMO its something so inherent to life that it seems almost meaningless to reiterate which is probably why it gets scoffed off so much by many. I'm not even sure I buy the argument that a lot of people don't understand the concept, I think many simply view it as: "Tell me more, everyone's got their own problems in life. And nobody's gonna fix em but ourselves.", wherein they understand what people are saying when they talk about it, they just feel as if everyone gets shafted somewhere in life. Nobody ever lives a perfect one no matter how great of a start they got, or how much help they have. At least, that's what I think a lot of people feel about it. I could be wrong, but that's the best explanation I have at the moment that doesn't delve into political dogma and social theories that aren't foolproof (the irony being mine isn't entirely foolproof either, but hey).

 

I would also argue though that certain people have certain privileges within society, even if they're not of the dominant or majority demographic of an area as well. In which case, it kinda defeats the purpose of pointing out someone's privilege, because one could argue that almost everyone has some measure of it, but that's also dependent on how one views the concept and its subject to the social-cultural situation I'll grant.

 

I can name various situations both historic and modern that I could use to try and demonstrate this idea, if you'd like.

 

IDK, just my thoughts.

 

EDIT: Realized I repeated my conclusion again from previously.

[Spagelo]

How do you even know the world exists? After all, for something to end, it must at first be, and all you know, the world may not. Everything you see isn't necessarily how it absolutely is, just what you perceive. The sky could be green, dragons might exist, or everything could be a figment of your imagination.

 

Yes, you. You know who you are...