Ross Scott

This is a thread meant for Linux gaming experts who have been helping me via email to help decide on the best configuration for doing old game testing in Linux.  I've gotten some conflicting information, so this is an effort to sort it out.  Here's a recap of what I'm trying to do:

GOALS / SYSTEM INFO:

•Test compatibility on a battery of games, all 3D accelerated, from about 1997 - 2010.  They'll be DirectX 5 - 9 games with maybe a couple OpenGL titles.  A fair portion of these titles will be obscure and unlikely to be in many game databases.  None of them will be Steam or GOG copies, only disc originals (some with DRM cracks).

•I wish to force mixed mode antialiasing (MSAA+SSAA for alpha textures) or SSAA on as many titles as I can.

•I wish to measure the framerate on as many titles as I can.  This means disabling vsync for benchmarking, though it would be nice to be able to turn it back on when I'm not also.

•The machine I'm using has a FX-8350 CPU and a Geforce 770 GPU.  I have a weaker AMD GPU card also I could use, but my initial research showed a wider range of antialiasing compatibility for Nvidia GPUs on Linux.  I currently have Ubuntu Mate installed.

I was using PlayonLinux and was having disappointing performance on many older titles.  I've since been told I should be using Luttris.  What I'm looking for is to collectively come up with a COMPLETE guide for everything I should do from a new install to having a solid set up.  I was starting to make a checklist when I got all the Lutrris info and discovered WINE was forcing Adaptive VSYNC on me, which sent me back to the drawing board.   Here was my checklist so far:

Obviously, some of this information is outdated, but I thought it was worth listing here for the parts I did get correct.

Anyway, please give me your detailed step-by-step instructions / suggestions for trying to get these games to run.  For example, maybe I should try Luttris in DXVK mode FIRST, but then if that doesn't work for a game, THEN try Playonlinux, etc.  Be as specific as you need to.  Alternately, if you disagree with advice someone else is giving, by all means, feel free to discuss it here.  You only need to "dumb down" the final instructions directed towards me, you can be as technical as you like towards each other. 

Thanks in advance for the help and if you're not particularly knowledgeable about Linux gaming, please refrain from posting in this thread.  I'm trying to cut down on the casual chatter here and focus just on the technical aspects of getting things working.

WHAT I CURRENTLY NEED HELP WITH

•Turning off adaptive Vsync in WINE.  It's been suggested to me that I should install libstrangle, which requires me to compile it myself.  It's also been suggested I disable Nvidia DRM, though someone else was claiming that would only work for Opteron setups.  I have no idea which route I should be pursuing, so I would appreciate some clarification here.

•Full installation / setup guide to Luttris for the types of games I'm testing (DirectX 5 - 9, mostly, many of which aren't in a Linux database).  Advice on what cases this is likely to be better, worse, etc.

•One person suggested dgvoodoo for getting antialiasing working on games it doesn't function on normally.  I think initial testing made this look like it was unlikely to help in most scenarios.  Any clarification on this + instructions for getting it working if it is in fact, recommended.

•For older games that only run at 4x3 resolutions, what is the recommended method to run these in full screen mode on a widescreen monitor with proportional stretching (in other words, the image will be scaled accordingly and not distorted horizontally)?

•(low priority) when forcing SSAA, I noticed on at least one title, it led to blurring above and beyond what you normally get from SSAA (all AA has a little bit of blur due to its nature, this was beyond that).  In situations this occurs in, are there any "sharpening" graphics options to counteract it?  If it helps, the title I remember this happening in was Warhammer: Mark of Chaos.

May videochat with fans.  Had some followup commentary on the Games as a service video, and several good questions afterward.  More normal videos coming!

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Since I've made the "Games as a Service" video, several US attorneys have weighed in on the legal portions of my video.  There's not a total consensus and in some cases there was minor misunderstanding, but the conclusions all point in the same direction:  GAAS is either not fraud or else extremely difficult to prove it's fraud.  Furthermore, even if it was established as fraud, it would be on such a minor level under the law, that it may not even carry a penalty.  Barring new information, I'm leaning towards declaring the USA a lost cause on this manner and focusing on countries with stronger consumer protection laws.

Anyway, here's a list of the legal analyses, and some additional appearances I had in responding.  I recommend not watching these unless you're bored or doing something else as most are quite long:

"YouTuber Law" video analysis
I think this is the best one (also the 2nd shortest). He grasped my arguments well and gave a realistic look at the situation.

Leonard French long video analysis
A longer look at the laws in the video, I also had some audio appearances in this one where I asked more questions.

Leonard French short video analysis
A quick look at the laws in the video, he made some conclusions that weren't quite applicable, which prompted the longer analysis

Hoeg Law video analysis
I thought his legal portion was relatively good, though there was a small misinterpretation on the legal portion and a major misinterpretation on my stance.

Hoeg Law audio discussion / debate
I appeared with Hoeg Law to go over his rebuttal and debate was was said in the previous video.  Discussed the larger issue also and not just the law in this one.

Nick Rekieta Law discussion [original channel deleted, but video was backed up]
A more casual discussion, he takes a differing view than most other attorneys, but still comes to a similar conclusion, that working within the confines of existing law is unlikely to work in USA.  We talk about various other things too.

Anyway, sorry to flood the site with all this legal analysis, I swear that's not the long-term direction things are taking, more regular videos coming!

ADHD version: Ross was right on some things, wrong on some things, doesn't matter for USA; the situation there is basically hopeless on legal protection against destroying games.

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1 hour ago, NightNord said:

2. Protocol documentation - depending on how bad the code is it will take from a week to a month to write it. Almost never they will have it outright. The documentation will have mistakes. 

What you're saying here flies in the face of what I was told by other developers.  Could you clarify?  Look at my post at the bottom of page 2, it specifies exactly what I'm talking about.  We're not talking about complete code documentation.

I think there's not as many barriers as you're making out.  Here's the thing: as I understand it, (in the USA anyway) the right to reverse engineer IS legal and protected under federal law as long as it's not using copyrighted material.

So say they turn off the DRM + and encryption + release the protocol documentation for "non-commercial and research purposes only, all rights reserved by (name of company)".  That language isn't giving explicit permission to reverse engineer, but they don't need to either.

I watched parts of it, and I 100% believe what GAS does is 100% fraud.

It's not fraud under the law though, best I can tell.  I agree completely that this shouldn't be legal, but since it is (in the USA), I was looking at it from the perspective of "does this violate any laws?"  It looks like no, and while this is still technically a grey area, it's more about subtle definitions rather than seeing any opening to actually challenge this legally.

It's less about "finding a reason" so much as finding a precedent.  If there's no precedent to protect preservation under legal terms and the existing laws block any interpretation of enforcing laws that way, then literally the only option is to propose new laws, which requires action through representatives in Congress.  If that's the case, then it's like in the video: I see that as almost impossible.  We can't even get Congress to get lead out of the water in the USA, I sure wouldn't count on this.

That said, other countries aren't nearly as hopeless.  France especially is showing real promise.

Quote

In my understanding it's like cracks. Making them is illegal (unless you are a museum and yada yada), but once you have them - use of them for own use is not illegal. Though yeah, it needs some more knowledgeable input.

I literally brought this question up in a discussion I did yesterday on the topic:

link

It's a long video though, bottom line is, reverse engineering appears to be completely legal if it doesn't use any copyrighted data without consent.  The company can easily give that consent for the "minimum effort" option upon releasing that data on its own terms without compromising its IP ownership in other areas.

So I would like to re-pose my earlier question:  As a developer, in your opinion, how long do you estimate it would take to perform the actions listed in one the "minimum effort" options?  NOT a full server replacement, NOT a functioning games, JUST what's listed on that slide (releasing packet documentation, disabling encryption, etc.) for an online game that was being shut down?  If it makes a difference, you can use the arena game v. MMORPG examples again.

24 minutes ago, NightNord said:

Yet, from the very link you've posted it's imo clear as day that no, it is not.

Thanks for clearing that up.  That law is a little more useless than I thought then.  I still need to verify about reverse-engineering being illegal though.  For example, emulators have been held up as legal in the USA if they don't use any code from the original, as was established in Sony v. Bleem.  If the developer is only providing documentation and turning off encryption, that may not constitute any actual code use, but this is a thornier issue that might need an expert to verify.

So technologically, if we consider a brand new game on a brand new code - it will be half-year in worst case, "free" in best case. A month on average case I think. But again - shooters will be more ok with that, MMOs will be very reluctant, because it will allow others to create similar mmos.

Just wanted to verify, are you saying releasing ONLY compiled code and not any source would create a risk to a company that may have other games sharing some of the same codebase?

Sorry not to respond to all your points, but this part below determines a lot of other things:

Quote

Any proposed "minimal effort" should be enough so fans can "repair" the game legally. You can't make/interpret a law in such meaning that to repair the game an owner needs to break another law. Reverse-engineering is illegal and it holds in courts. So all those ideas "just give us encryption keys and we'll do the rest" imply reverse-engineering of the client, which won't hold in a court.

Okay, see now, I'm confused.  Wasn't that the purpose of the DMCA exemption created last year?

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/11/expanded-dmca-exemption-video-game-preservation-grants-small-victory-amidst

My understanding was the exemption of 1201 of the DMCA says it IS legal to reverse engineer a server of an online game for purposes of restoring the functionality of the purchased product.  Care to clarify? This a really important point, and a lot of what you wrote afterwards hinges on how that is interpreted.

And to be clear, no, I'm not talking about FULL functionality.  Hell, someone can run World of Warcraft on a server emulator right now, but it's not going to be technically FULL functionality with every last similarity.  I would even argue that might be impossible for many MMOs.  If the law leaves absolutely no provision for releasing a modified copy that's similar to the original product, you're right, there's no shortcut at all, nor is that even a feasible path in many cases.  Is this really accurate though?  It seems like every time a company updates a game, they're changing the terms of what the game is due to changes.  I wouldn't think a scaled down emulated copy of the game would be any less an acceptable change.

Anyway, you're right in that this is essentially an unsolvable problem if FULL functionality is required to provide an enforceable solution for this.  Definitely clarify that DMCA exemption though, we need to have that understood before we (or at least I) can discuss this more objectively.

Ask questions or topics to discuss here for the next videochat with fans on 5:00pm UTC on May 5th at twitch.tv/rossbroadcast.  This one may be longer than usual since the "games as a service" video made a pretty big splash, so I'm guessing there may be more questions on that.

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19 hours ago, NightNord said:

And about that "minimal plan". I am a game engine programmer, so I know quite a bit about it. It's not that easy - there are third-party libs everyone are using that bound with license to the product. You can't just "release" the server in many cases - it's tied to client (code share) that uses those third-party libs, it's tied to platforms and SDKs that are usually under NDA.

 

I'm not even pretending to be knowledgeable on that part, but I've gotten a few messages on this that I've been referring to the person who worked reverse engineering a server emulator.  Here's a general response I've been sending, no one's replied back yet:

I was only talking about the "minimum effort" options to give users a fighting CHANCE to create a server emulator.  To that, he replied with this:

"On the documentation part, it would highly unusual for the server engineers not to keep SOME packet documentation during development since the server developers and the client developers are often separate.There is guaranteed, at least SOME packet documentation. There has to be. Like imagine that packet 02A sent a 8 bit packet of numbers, and it had to do with say, MPH in a racing game. This is really simplified, but you'll get the point. Then one of the 20 programmers comes along and has to ask EACH TIME what packet to check for that info.There's no way, at that point it becomes a profit loss not to have the server developer just type what it fucking is into something like OpenKM so people can search for it."

He also attached a comment somebody else made in the comments (attached below)

If you're saying that's still way off base, feel free to give specifics that I can pass on to him.  If you have specific grievances, you can even get as technical as you want, so I can pass it along to him even if it goes over my head.  On that note, I have some questions for you if you don't mind:

1. Since you're saying his time estimate is way off base, in your opinion, what is the BARE MINIMUM of effort a developer can do upon game shutdown to give users a CHANCE to attempt to create a server emulator?  In other words, not a functional emulator, just enough info to not make things an almost-impossible task.  Everyone seems to agree that disabling packet encryption is a big one (that alone could save YEARS or work).  What else?

2. How long would you estimate your bare minimum effort solution would take to implement?

3. The above is referring only to games that had no EOL plan to begin with.  But say you were creating a game from the design phase where you knew you wanted an EOL plan upon shutdown so users would have some method to run the game upon shutdown.  Assume it doesn't need to retain 100% functionality, so it may not contain things like auction houses, matchmaking, or being able to handle the same volume of players as a central server.  Just as long as the player can technically run around in the game and get some of the bare bones playability from the game.  How much extra work / budget do you estimate creating the EOL would take?  Assume 2 different scenarios:

3a. A simple arena shooter like Nosgoth or Lawbreakers

3b. A moderately sized MMO like Firefall or Wildstar

On 4/26/2019 at 12:24 AM, daisekihan said:

Well, in a sense I agree, but on the other hand it seems like you’re skating by on a technicality of the distinction between a good and a service. It seems more like these games are something in between a good and a service. 

 

Also, supposing you’re right and any online-only game is committing fraud if they don’t charge a fee and shut their game down. You say all these games couldn’t afford to go back to subscriptions—why couldn’t they just charge $0.01 for a yearly subscription? I mean, when you try to catch a company on a technicality like that, there’s always going to be loopholes. I think it would be hard to make this stick unless you could prove that when people buy an online only game with no subscription fee, they have the expectation that they will be able to play it indefinitely.

You call it a technicality, countries like Canada define them as dead-to-rights goods.  As for loopholes, sure, that's possible, but do companies really want to kick off players who lapse for a couple months and lower their playerbase for not paying 3 cents?  Having other players run around in the server and keep it populated is worth more to them than that, that's the reason the free to play model is so successful.  Again, this is CHEAP, cheaper than finding ways of evading it.  The only thing that's cheaper is doing nothing at all, I'm trying to see if the law can slam that door shut.

23 hours ago, Elfing said:

I was actually quite surprised Ross didn't mention that "games as a service" eliminates piracy at the "pros and cons" part. Now I am in no way arguing that setting up your game so that it is dependent on a central server is a sane and ethical way of preventing piracy -even though current regular DRM is extremely weak and gets cracked within days or even hours upon release-, however I think that was another counter argument that you had to answer towards the end. Games as a service is objectively better for the seller when it comes to maintaining profits by eliminating the chance for "cracks" of the game to be made but it is NOT fully defensable since you do breach the deal you made with the buyer by also preventing those who obtained the game legitimately to play it again.

It's like the other features I mentioned.  Eliminating piracy does not require you to ALSO destroy the game forever upon shutdown.  In other words, sure it eliminates piracy while the service is running, but that does not REQUIRE the game to die after shutdown.  The logic on this can confuse people.

22 hours ago, Im_CIA said:

This general call to arms against corporate greed reminds me of a book I read recently, Things Fall Apart by Chinua Achebe.

 

The story takes place in first wave of the European conquest of Africa, where the main character tries to rally his village to fight back against their oppressive, white colonizers. Unfortunately for him, most people just wanted to live and let live.

 

I get the feeling this will fizzle out in a similar way.. 

I admit the odds aren't great, but I am legitimately seeing a chance, so I'm going for it.  If I thought it was hopeless, I wouldn't have made this.  It's like I said, I need it to end or I need to be defeated. 

23 hours ago, Im_CIA said:

I don't care, there hasnt been a good video game since 2004. Gaming deserves to die

I may quote you for a future video I have planned, you may like it.

My ultimate video on "games as a service"!  This video is more fact-heavy than the vast majority of ones I make, but it's on a topic that I think is the largest problem in gaming today.  As you'll see in the video, this is my declaration of war on "games as a service."  I've been meaning to make this video since at least last year, there's been a lot leading up to this.  It's quite long and dryer than my usual stuff, you may want to watch it in chunks, or just skip straight to the ending.

In the past, I've made "Dead Game News" videos as a way to shine a light on how bad the practice of destroying games is.  That hasn't been enough to curtail the practice in any way whatsoever; on the contrary, the practice continues to accelerate.  This video is essentially what "Dead Game News" was leading up to.  I was hoping to raise enough awareness on the topic to take some sort of real action against it.  Most of the video is a "deprogramming" of the industry narrative as to what "games as a service" is, similar to how you would try to treat a rescued cult member, hence the reason it's so long.

The end goal of this video is to lead to some sort of legal action against the industry (details on that in the video).  Now that I've learned enough about the topic to see that this could actually be possible, I think it's the only chance for saving many games in the future.  I honestly have zero idea if this video will lead to real action being taken or if things will completely fizzle out.  Either way, I felt compelled to make it, like it wasn't even in my control.  This video is very much a "It's better to regret something you have done, than regret something you haven't done" situation.

This did take time away from my other usual videos, my apologies about that, but it also served as an exorcism for me so that I don't have to keep obsessing on this topic in the future.  It's in fate's hands now, I've done what I can, we'll just see what happens.  Anyway, more fun videos are coming for the future, which is what I'd rather be making anyway!

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Here's the latest videochat with fans.  I talk some about the next video coming up, plus answered questions as usual.  The topics of AI learning, Stadia, and Watch Dogs came up. More videos coming this month!

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I've mostly recovered from being sick!  Ask questions or topics to discuss here for the next videochat with fans on 5:00pm UTC on April 7th at twitch.tv/rossbroadcast.   My sickness skewed production some, but I've got some big videos coming for April.  This is just a detour, Freeman's Mind is still coming!  

Also, since the chats have been getting longer and longer, this time I'm trying something new and am only going to answer the top 20 voted questions.  After that, I'll skip the others unless I think they're pretty good topics + ones from live chat to keep the length of these down a little bit.

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Just a quick update, I've been sick with some sort of virus (probably flu) for the past week and a half.  It's affected my voice and means all recording is currently suspended until I'm better.  I have been working on supplemental material for the videos in the meantime, though going is slower since I'm still in an ongoing "blah" state.  I'm also cancelling the playsession with fans this month on the 23rd.  I'm anticipating I'll be good enough to do the videochat with fans in April, but I'll post an update if not. 

This will definitely delay the release of the next videos since I can't record yet, but may not impact the total time much for them all coming out since I'm still working on all of them.  I have some neat stuff coming!

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Here's the March videochat with fans with the usual rambling.  I genuinely thought this was going to be a shorter session, but had too many questions to go through.  I think in the future I'll have a cutoff point for how many I accept just to cut down some on the time.  I also think I may have screwed up and started it too early, but it went on so long I'm not sure that changed much.  Things happening with other videos in the meantime!

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Ask questions or topics to discuss here for the next videochat with fans on 5:00pm UTC on March 2nd at twitch.tv/rossbroadcast. I'm currently having minor setbacks on FM that I'm getting modding help on, been working on other videos in the meantime.

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Here's another blooper that happened in Freeman's Mind 2, completely unplanned.  This one happened multiple times, but this is one I recorded from the demos.  In addition to this, I also would get caught on something upon leaving the boat, being completely unable to move, but I could at least fight that one with noclip.  Not this.

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ekket: That looks like almost exactly what I want, too bad it's still prototyping.

EDIT:

Almost, upon further examination it looks like they don't have a button for the pinky finger either, I'm a mutant.

Here's the next episode, late, but still faster than the last one!  The boat created several issues for this one, but it ended up working well enough.  One annoyance is when playing back a demo, the screen glitches out for a frame or two every single time Freeman enters or exits the boat, so that needs to be fixed in editing.  There was also a more impressive bug I ran into which I'll post a blooper video of in a few days.

This video was also my first attempt at outsourcing the volume balancing to someone else.  I wasn't happy with the results, so I ended up doing it myself, which probably still isn't great, but is less not great than before.  I plan to try again with volume balancing help for future videos until I hopefully find someone better at it than me.  Next episode of FM2 is slowly underway!

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For Saturday, I was going to attempt to play Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne with fans, since it recently got patched to support 24 people at a time.  Unfortunately, if you own Warcraft 3, the process is rather convoluted.   It used to be you installed the game, then installed the patch.  Not anymore.  I ran into so many problems trying to get the recent patch working, I almost thought I was going to have to cancel the event entirely.  I found Blizzard's instructions to be utterly wrong and refer to links that simply didn't exist.  I finally did figure out how to get it working, so if you own a copy of the game, the instructions are below.  I can't promise they'll work for you, but this is what finally worked for me after MANY dead ends.

This isn't an attempt to get people to buy the game, I just figured it was a popular game at the time and many people may still have a copy of it somewhere.  Definitely don't go and buy the game just to play in this, it's possible it'll just be this one time I try a 24 person game of this, depends on how it goes.  It should download automatically when we play, but if you want a head start, this is the map I was planning on us playing.

INSTRUCTIONS FOR PEOPLE WHO OWN THE CD COPY:

1. Do NOT install Warcraft 3 from the CDs (It may not impact anything, but it certainly won't help).  If you already have it installed this way, I advise uninstalling it and deleting the directory.

2. Download installer from here (it's for 1.30.2, but it will update).  Best I can tell, Blizzard does not host the installer / patches anymore, a brilliant move.

3. Unzip the installer and run it with Windows XP compatibility mode on (right click on it, properties, compatibility tab).  I couldn't get it to work properly without doing this.

4. Install the game. If it gives you trouble here, I may not have help for you aside from uninstalling it (if it lets you), deleting the directory it was installing to, and trying again.

5. After installing the game, don't launch it yet (you can if you want, but it will probably give you an error).  Instead, go to your installed directory,  make sure "Warcraft III.exe" is NOT in XP compatibility mode, then run it.

6. Enter in your CD keys for both Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos and Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne when prompted.

7. Launch the game, then click on Battle.net and create an account.  Best I can tell, this is DIFFERENT from the Battle.net launcher used for Blizzard-Activition games like Overwatch, Hearthstone, etc., you'll need to create a new account entirely I think.  So, yes, this is for battle.net, not battle.net.

8. After creating it, on the main menu, click on the magnifiying glass to change the gateway selection.  Since fans will be playing globally, I'm thinking we'll try USA East as a compromise to have the lowest average ping for USA West and European players.

9. Join the stream at 5PM UTC on February 16th at twitch.tv/rossbroadcast so we can coordinate starting the game.  You don't have to leave the stream running afterward if you don't want to.  We'll wait a few minutes to let latecomers join in, but unfortunately people are locked out once the game starts.

INSTRUCTIONS FOR PEOPLE WHO GOT A COPY WITH WARCRAFT 3 REFORGED:
1. Beats me, you're on your own.  Steps 7 and onward are probably the same.

Everyone else is welcome to watch at 5PM UTC on February 16th at twitch.tv/rossbroadcast.

EDIT:
Blizzard's gaslighting me.  Apparently they've restored the option to download the official clients here:
https://us.battle.net/account/download/
That option was removed a week or two earlier.  Here's the wayback machine link to prove I'm not crazy:
http://web.archive.org/web/20181223085451/https://us.battle.net/account/download/
This doesn't affect the instructions at all, just wanted to add that.

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February videochat with fans.  Usual ramblings, though I also talk about what Machinima did towards the beginning of the video.  No videos being deleted here, more coming!  Also, the audio quality was a little worse this time, oops.

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Ask questions or suggest topics in the link here on Reddit to be talked on for the next videochat at 5:00pm UTC on February 3rd at twitch.tv/rossbroadcast.  Freeman's Mind is running late, but not hella late.  I've also been working on misc. things that should lead to neat videos in the future.  I've also been having some minor issues with the Source engine on the next episode, if you can believe that.

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UPDATE:
There's a map pack from last time to download below.  You should still be able to connect without it, but it will be much faster loading with it:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8edceso2tcpr4ct/AF_MapPack_17-9.7z?dl=0

Due to popular vote, Unreal Tournament 2004 will be the next game for the playsession with fans on Saturday, January 26th at 5PM UTC.  Here's info on how to join:

Main server:
play.mulvenontech.com
password: dog

Overflow Server:
play.mulvenontech.com:8877
password: dog

You can join by pressing ~ key in-game and type:
open play.mulvenontech.com

We'll probably be doing onslaught.  I was hoping for a bunch of custom winter maps, but I doubt I'll have time to hunt some down and have them tested.  You can watch it live/hear me at twitch.tv/rossbroadcast.  I've been told I should have a separate voice on Discord going also for players in-game, I may or may not have that set up for myself in time, if I do, I'll update info here.

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This is just a small blooper that emerged in the last episode that made me throw out the whole take.  Things like this can often happen, but it's usually not so dramatic.  I decided to record this one and release it.

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Here's the latest videochat with fans.  I have some updates on the movie (it's still on, I've just had some technical roadblocks), but mostly just a bunch of rambling.  I'll have more streaming this month along with (probably) more Freeman's Mind.

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