Seattleite

I just had a panic attack. I'm better now. I'll see a doctor as soon as I can, for now I'm just going to stay the hell outdoors.

I just got stuck in a crawlspace for over an hour. It was dark, and dusty, and I couldn't breathe. I tore myself all to hell on every single fucking nail clawing my way out, and now I can't see straight and I can't stop shaking. I am not okay.

Banned for thinking I'm using IE when I'm actually using Firefox. And, as I said, NOT my computer.

You know, we don't agree much. This feels a bit weird.

Stalling HARD on getting to work while listening to the Dark Souls soundtrack. I'll get to work eventually, I swear.

I can relate. Dark Souls will likely be my favourite for a LONG time, but eventually something will replace it. I'm used to that. If I'd made this thread before discovering Dark Souls, I would've said The Elder Scrolls myself. (Also, I mod The Elder Scrolls as well. Always good to see somebody else who does.) Before that, I don't know.

Alright, it's time for each of us to list our favourite game or favourite franchise.

The game doesn't have to be perfect, it can be heavily flawed as long as it's your personal favourite, and you can change your answer later if you want.

My favourite game to date is Dark Souls. If you've seen any of my posts on the subject in the last month you already know that. This game was something I just picked up because it was supposed to be really hard, and within the day I was hooked. I can't get away from it. It sucked me right in, and I've been deeply immersed in the game and its story ever since. Now, it has its flaws, but it's a great game. I can count all the poorly designed bosses in the game on one hand, (Bed of Chaos, Demon Pyromancer, Stray Demon, Centipede Demon and Ceaseless Discharge) and everything else is fantastic. The game is beautiful, atmospheric, just the right kind of difficult (fair and skill based, with by far fewer unfair or luck-based moments than other games), is just generally well designed, has a magnificent soundtrack and despite its lore being conveyed mostly through item descriptions, dialogue and visual design, there's a lot of it and it's very well done. I could lose myself in this game for days (and have).

This soundtrack is glorious. It's epic when it should be, inspiring when it should be, moving when it should be, and crushing when it should be. It might not sound like it at first, but it's one of the darkest, saddest soundtracks you'll ever listen to, and that fits the game's atmosphere perfectly. It also may not seem like it at first, but it's one of the darkest, saddest games you'll ever play. I particularly recommend the tracks "Great Grey Wolf Sif", "Gwyn, Lord of Cinder" and "Nameless Song". In particular, Nameless Song. The Nameless Song is the credits theme, and more importantly it's your theme.

You going to tell us the title, or just keep vaguely alluding to it?

As for me, preparing coffee for another day working on my aunt and uncle's miniature farmstead out in the sticks. There's nothing else out here to do, might as well work. If it wasn't for the glorious solitude I get out here, (nobody else is here, not even my uncle, and nobody will be until wednesday) I would never put up with this shit. As it is, I've been waiting for this for weeks.

I hear that. Stun-locking is bullshit in all games at all times, and I fucking hate it.

Banned because I did notice, thank you very much. I'm not using my own computer, there's no spellcheck on this damned thing.

And now you're the one taking a joke too seriously.

You're copy+pasting? Well there's your problem. Stop doing that.

Both spellings arose around the same time, in the same area... Neither are "American" in origin, and therefore neither are American.

The same is true of grey and gray, and yet we all know which side of the pond each is used on. One was retained chiefly in the US and one chiefly in the UK. And I happen to be using the one retained in the UK, rather than the one retained in the US. Using "American" as a shorthand for "the version of the word most yanks use and most limeys don't" is acceptable in either instance.

Moving on from the English or English-English debate and going back to the game... I don't see much use for that kind of gravity control, but since I'd know the changes are coming and nobody else would I would likely use them to gain an edge in self-defence scenarios and otherwise leave it alone. Maybe think of a prank or two it would be useful for.

If each night's dream was a lifetime long, and you could control what the dream would be before you went to sleep? (No control once asleep.)

Banned for thinking he was the one I was comparing to a pigeon.

I specified that it can go through II-A (which is designed to defeat regular and most +P 9mm rounds) and SEASONED II armor, (which has about the same resistance as II-A) but I've seen plenty of tests IRL that lend me to believe it just can't quite get through III-A. (unless it's very old and worn)

BTG, go back and reread it. You said, and I quote:

(and +P+ can defeat class II, and old class II-A armor)

Either you meant "class II-A, and old class II" or you meant "class II, and old class III-A". Because, as I said, II-A is weaker than II, so it being able to defeat class II but not II-A unless the II-A is old makes no sense. I went with the latter because it seemed more likely you had a small typo than got your sentence backwards.

And so you know, I've seen PASGT vests that took enough UV damage on tour to be defeated by 9mm bullets.

Oh, and Randomguy, I'll give your post here a proper response tomorrow, but I don't know if I'll have time tonight. (Basically just making dinner and going to bed.)

*Ahem* Actually, BTG is right

No, BTG is wrong, and I can prove it. And I should not have to link to a dictionary to prove that I spelled a fucking word right, but here I go.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/offence

American spellings are not the "correct" spellings and you don't get to force them on people.

If you saw a $20 bill (or the equivalent currency from where you live) on the ground?

I would take it. What kind of question is that?

If your home country, already not a very bright place, kept getting dumber at a disquieting pace and trying to force their stupidity upon you?

You haven't ever talked to a special forces group have you... They use whatever the hell they want for weapons and ammo, regardless of what they're issued. They even have been known to use modified AK47's when they need something that absolutely will not ever fail on them. Grabbing some 9mm AP rounds wouldn't be entirely out of character for them provided they knew they were going against armor. (which they didn't, which is why I said that it was very unlikely, though they can get through class III armor without too much trouble)

III-A, maybe. III, no.

Otherwise, you are surprisingly correct on the rest of this.

The +P+ rounds however are very likely, since the standard round is already a +P, and most special divisions try to go a little above the standard when it comes to ammo and weapons. (and +P+ can defeat class II, and old class II-A armor)

I think you mean III-A, not II-A. Because II-A is weaker than II by rather a lot.

If multiple shots are placed around the vest, it can take a while to break, but the blunt force trauma should have an effect long before that, yes?

Effect, yes. Serious effect, no. Bullets that don't get through armour really are like a much nastier version of paintball. A 9mm that doesn't penetrate armour won't cause a serious injury. Repeating it won't make that much better. Asking how many it would take is like asking how many times somebody could stand being slapped. It's not a consistent number at all, really depends on the person, and when adrenaline comes into the picture it increases dramatically. The number of shots it would take to kill somebody with these wounds, a much lower bar than immediate incapacitation, is many times higher than the armour can actually stop. It really does just come down to when the armour gives out.

I see.

 

Well, alternate theory to the HK53 one: that really is an MP5. However, due to the unit deployed to Black Mesa being "what's left", and it only being... let's say 2002, they're using PASGT vests and helmets, and requisition issues and lack of stock (the units in Afghanistan would probably take top priority) mean a lot (let's say half) of the troops don't get the rifle-proof plates (that's not super out there, right? After all, many troops in Mogadishu didn't get back plates when they were fully expected to engage in combat, and many of the ones who did still only wore front plates). They're not viewed as priority anyway, as any potential Black Mesa clean-up operation is not only unlikely, but from the government's point of view will likely involve only cleaning up wildlife and the occasional stranded Xenian soldier, rather than a full-on invasion by troops hard armor might help against.

 

Of those that do have plates, many more (let's say half) have just chosen not to wear them to save on weight, both because they weren't expecting much resistance where they were, and because they're dumb (although, technically not unrealistically dumb). The last quarter do in fact wear the plates. However, these tend to be the ones who Freeman manages to hit in the face (we see him do that tons of times, or at least see blood puffs come from the head area, and in many more cases we don't see the bullet impacts and can assume that to be the case). The others are either killed or incapacitated by multiple 9mm NATO rounds to their armor, with many more likely impacting unarmored parts like the legs ("Freeman's actually hitting guys he's technically missing in-game at long range" can also come into play here). From the tests I've seen, it only takes a couple of shots to the same general area for a 9mm to break the vest, and the PASGT doesn't protect against blunt force trauma as well it could anyway.

 

The plate-wearers get shot in the head. About 3/4 of the troops are just wearing soft armor and get killed/incapacitated by a handful of 9mm NATO shots each*. Buckshot killing the soldiers still makes no sense. 9mm and buckshot have no effect on Freeman's armor. 7.62x51, likely what the snipers are using, can dent the armor and leave welts on Freeman through it, and could probably get through it if they shot him enough times. The .50 BMG machine guns that Gordon is cautious of (and Ross seems to think can kill him) can shatter his armor and significantly wound him with one hit, taking him out of the fight and bringing him pretty close to death, and surely kill him with anything more. And, of course, autocannons (like the one used by the Bradley) can "turn [him] into red paste".

 

*I've counted, and it only takes three shots in FM to kill a soldier, but he typically keeps shooting them after the game registers them as 'dead', so we can assume that in this universe at least the soldiers usually take more than three shots, but not much more.

 

Does any of that sound remotely plausible?

More plausible than the HK53 theory, but that would be assuming Half-Life is in 2002 and that seems unlikely. And there being few soldiers left in 2002 is even more unlikely. It seems much more likely this is occurring later, especially if the soldiers really are that bad, since in 2002 we'd have plenty of GOOD soldiers out and available. In 2004 or 2005, this theory would make more since because of the Iraq war, and them wearing PASGT would still be plausible because it did see use by military reserve units for a while.

However, the big flaws here are that bullets that don't penetrate somebody's armour do very little and the armour would give out before they were seriously impaired, ISAPO was out in the 2000s and they would have plates on, and the armour they wear is clearly too thick and bulky to be PASGT anyway. Not to mention that a special forces unit would have better armour, and HECU is supposed to be special forces.

In either case, I'll soon post some comments on your mod's thread. I just re-installed Black Mesa, so my interest in it has been further piqued.

Alright then. But I'm out in the sticks so don't expect a rapid response.

As do I. Also, you spelled offense wrong.

Oh joy, another STUPID yank who doesn't know how to spell and insults people for spelling things right.

Moving on with the game:

Wonder how that was possible considering that ebola is infectious, NOT contagious.

If you had to argue with somebody so incredibly stupid and willfully ignorant that it always goes about as well as playing chess with a pidgeon? (In other words, if you had to do what I always get stuck doing?)

Banned for still trying to argue with BTG even though it's like playing chess with a pidgeon.

What's this? BTGBullseye being like Seattleite, and Seattleite being like BTGBullseye? Anywho...

That is not what's going on, and I take offence to that.

As for your question, I'd spend my last day trying to make some sort of impact on the world. I don't know how. Probably try to assassinate the Koch brothers or something.

What would you do if you were reincarnated whenever you died, with all memories intact. (And no concept of "karma", by the way. Totally random rebirth.)

Okay, last question in this thread: if you had to give an estimate, how many pistol bullets (let's say standard 9mm NATO) would you say the PASGT would be able to stop at say 10-15 meters? How many shots before the wearer is significantly injured?

That is a question that can't be answered. It's a kevlar vest. If the shots are real close it might only be two or three. It they're all over it might be dozens.

And for the record, III-A requires stopping a .357 Sig and a .44 magnum. Not that hard. That 12-gauge slug is harder to stop than both of those combined. If it stopped a 12-gauge slug, it's a III-A.

Let me explain what's different between this test and others. This vest they are testing is fairly new. It is not old, or worn, or damaged. And that REALLY matters in armour, especially in a PASGT vest. Most PASGT vests on the civilian market are used, so most tests of them are on used vests. Kevlar deteriorates very quickly, especially in sunlight as it is damaged by ultraviolet radiation. After being used on tour and then put up on the civilian market, it absolutely will be a lot weaker. Especially with a PASGT vest. PASGT was the first military armour made of kevlar. They didn't know jack shit about how to treat kevlar then. The kind of kevlar used had a very low resistance to UV damage, and the outer fabric provided almost no UV protection. PASGT vests were then taken out to the middle of the desert where the sun bore down on them at all times and deteriorated. Then these deteriorated vests were taken and sold on the civilian market when they were phased out. That's where the testing vids come from, old and deteriorated PASGT vests. I just showed you an unused, fairly fresh vest and what it'll do.

The PASGT vest isn't shitty because it doesn't work as a bulletproof vest. It's shitty because it wasn't built properly for what it was used for. It wasn't designed to stop rifles, the military didn't understand kevlar couldn't stop shrapnel, and took this vest that already couldn't do the job it needed to or the job it was meant to and put it in an environment that absolutely destroys it. If they just wanted a vest to stop pistol fire then they'd just need to replace it often and it would have been fine, but they needed a vest that could defend against rifles and shrapnel and survive in a desert, and that is why the PASGT vest had to go.

There's no prize for being the biggest insomniac and there's certainly no need to be rude about it.

Just giving him a little perspective. And implying he should stop whining.

III-A on its own? That doesn't sound right, at least not going by the sources I've seen, including testing videos like this one:

III-A yes, according to the military. And your test video specifies it was a heavily used vest tested, and gets II-A and II totally ass-backwards. Here's an actual test of an unused vest.

And why yes, it's a III-A. The guys testing it were mystified when it stopped a 12-gauge slug.