Deep Dive Devin

It's more than just that though. You can expect this from conservatives (Chuckie's killer was almost certainly a Nick Fuentes fan after all), but it's also exceptionalism. The idea that a cishet white American conservative man did it is, like the majority of political shootings, something they desperately need to distract and scapegoat from. And an unfortunate convenience liberals and conservatives share right now is the belief that the US "did everything it could" to stop the mass murder of Palestinian civilians (conservatives will say this AND that the killing is justified, somehow). Somehow they say, Israel's government is just too powerful, we can't do anything to them. Trump and Biden are repeatedly described as "putty in Netanyahu's hands" by the media. But like. No they're not. The US could demilitarize Israel in a day if we wanted. But why would we want that? We're America! Mass murder and settler colonialism is our whole damn thing! The Israeli government isn't controlling our white supremacist project, they're our favorite tool in it. So the US can just sit back and play the innocent card, and keep equating ethnic cleansing with jewish personhood, and invent a secret cabal that can kill whichever citizens they want, no matter how useful someone like Chuckie is to the agenda. Which is the most antisemitic thing in this entire debate, really. You'd think it wouldn't work that way, but it's not always as simple as you expect. Honestly, I don't think CIA is correct, but his take is the most lucid if we're going the conspiracy route -- it is awfully convenient that this happens to the rare far-right dude who actually is asking for the Epstein files (not that this exonerates him, of course), right after what seems to be Trump's drawing of a naked child's body and poem about raping kids leaks to the media. I don't think the Trump administration made this happen, but they sure got everything they could have wanted from it.

Really not wasting any time connecting the dots between two different justifications for collective punishment there, are ya

So are we getting a change to the thread title since it's apparently just BTG's thread for propaganda posting now?

You're calling me a liar because I'm acting in good faith. Your quote of "bad faith" here is me, literally making the argument you should have used for you! It's clear from your own hypocrisy that you view honesty and conformity as the same thing. I wear your hate as a badge of honor.

The context for conservatives celebrating the murder of people they don't like is that they are celebrating the murder of people they don't like. I don't know why you think I can't see what they're saying, I posted what they're saying and there's no moment in any of these instances where any of them say "just kidding, I actually don't believe any of what I just said". And not being sad that Chuckie died isn't that, despite what you've implied up till now. That sure hasn't been the opinion of every conservative I've seen in my life up until this point, aren't you the ones who have been banging the "cancel culture" drum for the last decade? Please say to me, verbatim, "everyone who ever fired a conservative for their reactionary politics was justified". You just answered it. Calls for violence are not protected speech. Not only are you defending institutions and yes, the government, censoring people for non-violent speech about Chuckie (including literally just quoting him in a way that makes him look bad), you are pretending that Chuckie was not constantly, constantly advocating for violence himself. If the left is violent for not being mad about groyper gang violence, then Chuckie is certainly more violent on every possible level for constantly fueling violent conservatism and literally making direct threats in several cases. I haven't justified anything, you're hallucinating again. The only person who can reliably be stated to have justified the gun violence that killed Chuckie Smallface is Chuckie himself. He was quite literally spreading false statistics about trans people to influence violence against them in the moment before he died. "Citation needed, but anyway here's some shit I made up with no citation, because I'm innately better and don't need one" And of course there are no "cremation furnaces" being built. That's not what the Nazis did to kill immigrants either. You somehow made an argument so bad here that I'd have to correct you by saying "the death camps aren't literally using zyklon B" if you wanted to make the correct version of your insanely bad argument. The context is that conservatives believe and say all of this. You really haven't, though. You've put links that you SAY justify anything, but then they don't actually do that. And unlike me, you've never even made an attempt to explain anything. You just say "this proves it" and then think rhetoric isn't actually important for you. Your entire philosophy here seems to be "I get to tell you what to do, you don't get to tell me what to do".

I'm not in the business of denying the actions of, say, the USSR or China, make no mistake. Mainly the issue is that the whole debate is a distraction from more specific points, or simply discards the fact that a conservative, traditionalist ideology is going to be resistant to evolution, while progressive politics don't neatly map onto regimes from the 20th century. But when you get into specifics, you see the issue. It's not hard to figure out why, say, eugenics is wrong, even without the Nazi party. There's no actual objective measure for what genes are better than others, and even if there was, political policy restricting the ability for demographics to consensually bear children as they wish, based on that or anything else, is an enormous and destructive attack on people's freedom. There's no separating the genocide out. But like, worker-owned businesses and economies? It's a lot harder to just say "the USSR believed in that, so Winco is doing a holodomor to me personally!". It's always "the left are authoritarians", until the left criticizes the police and military. "If antifascism is so popular, why did the government declare it a terrorist group? Checkmate, liberal". Or how it's kinda hard to justify being on the opposite side of racial equality activists and claim that you're the moral center, that's why the conversation has to become "you're the real racist", because they know "actually racism is good" won't fly. Because the left changes and updates itself, the attacks on it have to update as well, that's why, for instance, trans people have to be sold as a "new phenomenon" and an "attack on women", because conservatives know that feminism actually is popular but don't want to engage with the whole "attacking the exact same groups the Nazi party started on". The enemy is both strong and weak, as they say. Actually, no political movement in history has ever really made trans rights its centerpiece, so I guess lacking a historical scapegoat to compare it to would probably be why they just go back to the old blood libel stuff from the 30s. That's why they play identity politics; now, criticizing illegal military occupations and ethnic cleansing is antisemitic, so the left were the REAL antisemites all along (nevermind the antisemitism inherent in equating jewish personhood to the actions of a racially-segregated imperialist state). Homophobia isn't real, but the left are the TRUE homophobes when they shit on Dave Rubin or Milo Yiannopolous oh whoops he verbally advocated for child rape? great now we get to call gays pedophiles again. Or hey, in this very thread, saying "this guy is black and gay, therefore he can't possibly be reinforcing any reactionary politics, and you as a leftist have to listen to him". One time, I saw conservatives spamming Occasio-Cortez with an image macro saying "IF YOU HATE WHITE PEOPLE SO MUCH, WHY DID YOU MARRY ONE?", and I think understanding how someone could come to believe that made sense to print will basically let you see the damn matrix every time they open their mouths.

I've literally been posting examples of every dipshit fascist podcaster you quote doing exactly this for the entire thread. The free speech advocacy leaving BTGbullseye's body the second someone is defending the murder of someone who wasn't a woman, minority or leftist. They call you Nazis because you kill all the same people the Nazis did for the same reason the Nazis did in the same way the Nazis did. There is not, has never been and never will be a wave of deaths based on people being falsely accused of fascism. Such as, for example, people who celebrate the murder of protestors, who call for the genocide of gay and trans people, who deny and justify police murdering citizens, and who delude themselves into believing political violence in this country is not overwhelmingly more common on the right.

It sure is convenient, huh? This thread started out saying the left perpetrates and celebrates more political violence in the US, but the second someone challenged that & refuted it with receipts of the propagandists saying it openly engaging in this behavior, suddenly the goalposts move. Now it's conservatives redefining leftism to whatever convenient thing they hate regardless of the context of the modern left, because that's a thing conservatives can argue about until the sun blows up. Pointing at a blue-haired lady and yelling "YOU'RE LIKE STALIN!" until I get banned from the Arby's. I'm sure this is just a coincidence, and burying the lede isn't a common tactic with reactionaries online. How fortuitous for the right that we now are in a conversation they can ignore any context about until the sun blows up.

Could ya try doing some non-superficial investigation? What did you even look at that drove you to this heel-turn?

You also don't see it having "objectively caused more human fatalities than all other sources throughout all of history COMBINED". The article you're citing directly acknowledges your childish mindset toward this.

Every source for the so-called "deaths by communism" is massively padded by things like "Nazi soldiers killed during World War 2" and "theoretical children evangelists assume would have been born if not for this shit we made up about commies". Their highest estimates are nothing compared to deaths by the poverty imposed by, say, neoliberal capitalism. It's just a conservative meme at this point.

The idea that violence serving capital is right-wing seldom crosses the minds even of most democrats. But yes, if I included that, there would be absolutely no questions whatsoever. I was already trying to play ball by ignoring the government's role entirely, which is another shoe-in win given that most western countries have never had leftist leadership (even if you count countries that call themselves communist but are arguably still bourgeoisie dictatorship where the workers do not own the means of production), so even if there was a secret loophole in leftist philosophy that made it more violent than conservatism, it'd still be radically unbalanced. And of course, all this leaves out whether the goals of left vs. right violence are even equally worthy of pursuit at all. "The ends justify the means" is a terrible moral philosophy, but we shouldn't treat the idea of considering the ends at all as taboo either. If fascism or eugenics or a christian theocracy or whatever were achieved "nonviolently", they would still be extremely evil.

You have provided no such thing. You sent one article, and it's full of shit. Not only is this garbage written like a fourteen year old libertarian who just discovered Sargon of Akkad videos, it cherrypicks a grand total of seven things out of a list of over five thousand, attempts to randomly assign leftist motivation to them, and still fucks that up too! If you believe this, you'll just as easily believe flat-earthers, creationists, geocentrists and dudes who think wiping your ass turns you gay. The fact that you say the prosecution project is "the only study", as if this has not been monitored for decades, should be fucking embarrassing to you (almost as much as this article pretending the entire thing was just done to cover up Chuckie's death, even though we've known this shit forever). You want evidence, try looking at how many mass shooters cite these same dipshit podcasters in their manifestos. Check how often random users on this forum show up, talk mad shit and then make weird threats in the name of hating leftists! I know you've been here to see plenty of them. Check any possible source that isn't obviously pushing this same fucking insane narrative. This is page 1 of google shit, and you're here demanding I take this website full of defense for President Epstein seriously. I'm not going to do that. EDIT: I didn't even notice before but it's blaming the Trump shooting attempts on the left too. Literally just pointing at anything you don't like and going "commulists!".

The idea that the right does more violent acts is completely correct, as the only attempts at dispelling multiple studies confirming this are right-wing babies crying that their violence does not count as violence (or as right-wing), and that violence they disagree with is automatically leftist. On the contrary, most studies are biased in favor of the right by treating religious terrorism as something other than conservative. Propaganda rags like this are not much of an argument in your favor.

To clarify: When I say "normal", I'm not calling BTGbullseye a weirdo freak just for the fun of it. The attempted normalization of extremist conservative rhetoric is what spurs on this violence, and despite all attempts to do so (and the coping rationalizations otherwise), it never has been and never truly will be popular in the public eye, because it's against the public good overall. I was mostly bringing this as a rebuttal to the idea that a fascist politician declaring antifascism a "terrorist group" is somehow evidence that being against fascism is no longer popular. That said, I'll drop this since it largely doesn't matter. It was potshots against potshots since he's still trying to make this about the left, even though as we've seen, the right incites, celebrates, denies and commits violent acts such as this overwhelmingly more often. I do think it's weird how Israel has inserted themselves into this situation, and I'd be remiss to say that the Trump admin wouldn't cause or allow the death of some racist dipshit to distract from other topics (hey, it got people talking about something other than the president being a child rapist, didn't it?), but I still resist the idea that there was any conspiratorial planning of this. It seemingly is white boy gang war shit, if Nick Fuentes's "oh shit that's one of my guys" reaction is anything to judge by, or else some "impress Jodie Foster" shit if those extremely-suspicious chatlogs the FBI threw out turn out to not be fake. It is not unlike 9/11 or 10/7 (surprising rhyming skill on Hamas's part btw), where I don't believe the authoritarian imperialist governments planned anything out to happen, because they didn't need to. All they need to do is create an environment and status quo that is so toxic that violence and radicalization becomes inevitable. And since they like doing that anyway, whoop, now we have an excuse to invade the privacy of everyone in the US. Now we have an excuse to indiscriminately bomb Palestinian civilians. Now we have an excuse for mass-censorship of anyone who posts Chucky's own words because they make him look bad.