I love war.

[Rover]

I actually took a few moments to watch the Alex Jones youtube clip you posted. There's no real indication judging on the footage alone when and where that was taken. For all I know it could've been taken at the weekly meeting of the tinfoil hat brigade where the next topic of discussion was how to stop the army of 100 million communist muslims currently amassing in Mexico that Obama will bring in after declaring martial law and canceling the 2016 elections.

 

And also, I'm not sure you should be listening to Alex Jones. Hear me out on this.

I think he's part of a government black flag operation to discredit conspiracy theories, it makes perfect sense. As soon as most people see Alex Jones' name attached to a story they roll their eyes and dismiss it as just more rambling from a rambling lunatic.

It's so brilliant and sneaky it has to be true.

[BTGBullseye]

So let me get this straight... I use a video from someone, and that automatically means I believe everything he does? I am not a moron that can't think for myself, I can sift fact from fiction. I come to conclusions based on people I know and trust, combined with any source that has reliable info. (and a video corroborating a story from my cousin, who never exaggerates, is a reliable source IMO)

[ThePest179]

(and a video corroborating a story from my cousin, who never exaggerates, is a reliable source IMO)

 

Which we can't verify.

 

Understand the issue?

[BTGBullseye]

Understand the issue?

Yeah, you don't care that there is evidence. You want mainstream-only sources that match your ideals, and you consider anything else a fake.

[ThePest179]

Yeah, you don't care that there is evidence.

 

That can't be verified.

 

Don't get it yet? That's alright. I'm out.

[BTGBullseye]

What is your definition of verification? That part you have never said. I verified it, and you have both me, my cousin who works for FEMA, and someone from the US military that video recorded the exact same plan.

[Rover]

What is your definition of verification? That part you have never said. I verified it, and you have both me, my cousin who works for FEMA, and someone from the US military that video recorded the exact same plan.

 

 

okay, so FEMA's coming to take all the guns, for what purpose? And when will this happen?

[ThePest179]

I couldn't resist.

 

you have both me, my cousin who works for FEMA,

 

Unreliable.

 

and someone from the US military that video recorded the exact same plan.

 

It was not the same plan, it was a plan to confiscate firearms in the event that civil order has collapsed and the military needs to restore order ASAP. If you actually listened to your own source you'd realize that.

[BTGBullseye]

Unreliable.

In what way? Just because you don't like what I say, or because I have somehow repeatedly lied without knowing about it?

 

It was not the same plan, it was a plan to confiscate firearms in the event that civil order has collapsed and the military needs to restore order ASAP. If you actually listened to your own source you'd realize that.

You're assuming 2 things.

 

1. That I ever said they were planning on doing it without first declaring martial law.

2. That the USA won't ever declare martial law in an oppressive manner, like any tyrannical government would.

[ThePest179]

1. That I ever said they were planning on doing it without first declaring martial law.

 

Irrelevant.

 

2. That the USA won't ever declare martial law in an oppressive manner, like any tyrannical government would.

 

They wouldn't. There is literally no way that they could do that without causing a second civil war in no time at all. Do you really think that every US soldier/National Guardsman would follow the order to turn the US into a Chile style dictatorship?

[BTGBullseye]

Irrelevant.

No it isn't, as the US government is gearing up in a way it never has before for a war with it's citizens. It is currently in the 'popular support' phase, where they try to get as many people as possible to give up their freedoms willingly, and get as many people as possible to support the removal of any restrictions on the government doing what it wants.

 

Your statement implies that you think, that I think, that they wouldn't even make an attempt to hide the fact that they are turning into a totalitarian regime. (which is not even close to reality)

 

They wouldn't. There is literally no way that they could do that without causing a second civil war in no time at all. Do you really think that every US soldier/National Guardsman would follow the order to turn the US into a Chile style dictatorship?

I think we're well on the way towards one anyways, and the government does too. They're preparing to make either a first strike, or to make the most powerful counterstrike they can. If they make a first strike, they can blame it on intel they gathered from the NSA about a massive coordinated terrorist assault on the country. (the military would likely accept that reason for the first 3-6 months) If a counterstrike, they would probably bill it as a massive coordinated terrorist assault on the country, and implement martial law, then keep it in place 'to make sure they got all of the terrorists'. (we were very close to doing that right after 9/11)

[Rover]

Irrelevant.

No it isn't, as the US government is gearing up in a way it never has before for a war with it's citizens. It is currently in the 'popular support' phase, where they try to get as many people as possible to give up their freedoms willingly, and get as many people as possible to support the removal of any restrictions on the government doing what it wants.

 

Your statement implies that you think, that I think, that they wouldn't even make an attempt to hide the fact that they are turning into a totalitarian regime. (which is not even close to reality)

 

They wouldn't. There is literally no way that they could do that without causing a second civil war in no time at all. Do you really think that every US soldier/National Guardsman would follow the order to turn the US into a Chile style dictatorship?

I think we're well on the way towards one anyways, and the government does too. They're preparing to make either a first strike, or to make the most powerful counterstrike they can. If they make a first strike, they can blame it on intel they gathered from the NSA about a massive coordinated terrorist assault on the country. (the military would likely accept that reason for the first 3-6 months) If a counterstrike, they would probably bill it as a massive coordinated terrorist assault on the country, and implement martial law, then keep it in place 'to make sure they got all of the terrorists'. (we were very close to doing that right after 9/11)

 

So, any idea when this will happen BTG? I'm asking because I think this "tyrannical government takeover" narrative has been around since at least the early 90s and may even go back as far as the John Birch society in the 50s and 60s.

I regularly keep tabs on the dire predictions coming out of the far-right, but they never seem to come true. Never seems to faze these people though, they just ignore the failed prediction and move on to the next one. So what's the time frame on this, 5 years? 10 years? 25? 50?

[ThePest179]

Irrelevant.

No it isn't,

 

Yes it is.

 

It is currently in the 'popular support' phase, where they try to get as many people as possible to give up their freedoms willingly, and get as many people as possible to support the removal of any restrictions on the government doing what it wants.

 

There is a logical limit to how far it could go.

 

Your statement implies that you think, that I think, that they wouldn't even make an attempt to hide the fact that they are turning into a totalitarian regime. (which is not even close to reality)

 

Declaration of martial law and suspension of the Constitution are pretty obvius, I'd imagine.

 

If they make a first strike, they can blame it on intel they gathered from the NSA about a massive coordinated terrorist assault on the country. (the military would likely accept that reason for the first 3-6 months)

 

No they would not, and only a few others would accept that too. When hundreds of thousands of people -US citizens - are getting arrested en masse for crimes that they didn't commit, when martial law is suddenly declared across the whole country (in response to a "terrorist attack" which really isn't feasible), and when it continues to be implemented for far longer than would be logically necesary, the shit would hit the fan for the would-be Pinochets.

 

If a counterstrike, they would probably bill it as a massive coordinated terrorist assault on the country, and implement martial law, then keep it in place 'to make sure they got all of the terrorists'. (we were very close to doing that right after 9/11)

 

What do you mean by "counterstrike"? Massive revolution? If things were that bad in the US that people were rioting en masse, then calling it a terrorist attack, or even being able to get the US Army/National Guard to follow orders would be pretty damn hard to do in such a situation.

 

So out of curiousity, have you read "Icarus Rising", by chance? It's free to read online, you can probably find it in a google search (and I know that you can type). I ask because you're laying out the plot of the story. Of course, the whole martial law declaration went really badly in the story.

 

Can you also give a reson as to why this would happen?

[BTGBullseye]

So, any idea when this will happen BTG? I'm asking because I think this "tyrannical government takeover" narrative has been around since at least the early 90s and may even go back as far as the John Birch society in the 50s and 60s.

I regularly keep tabs on the dire predictions coming out of the far-right, but they never seem to come true. Never seems to faze these people though, they just ignore the failed prediction and move on to the next one. So what's the time frame on this, 5 years? 10 years? 25? 50?

Currently, if things stay where they are and don't change in any way, we won't have open conflict. (but it will remain tense, and there may be a few minor riots and large demonstrations) If it goes the direction the NSA is pushing for at the rate it's pushing for, I'd say no more than 10 years till Civil War 2. If it goes the way it looks like it'll go, no conflict, because a lot of the tyrannical laws and violations of the constitution are being scrutinized and removed.

 

Things have been changing in recent months, and the two factions in power are now fighting between the different ideals. One for the NSA surveillance-state and violating the Constitution, the other for removing the NSA.

 

***[PLACEHOLDER FOR EDITING AFTER CHURCH FOR RESPONSE TO ThePest179]***

[Collective Foal]

How did this thread descend into paranoid rants about government conspiracies to conquer the freedom of the American people? The only problem we have with our freedom at this very moment in the United States is that which is caused by a racist police force and a misogynistic society.

[K4_Kydure]

How did this thread descend into paranoid rants about government conspiracies to conquer the freedom of the American people? The only problem we have with our freedom at this very moment in the United States is that which is caused by a racist police force and a misogynistic society.

It spawned off of a discussion about a war with Mexico which brought up the discussion of civil war in the United States.

Actually follow it and you would know.

This isn't the "pretend all our cops are racist" or the "women are pure all knowing goddesses" thread.

[Collective Foal]

Sorry, I really should get my context, but I hate scrolling back through pages and reading paragraphs of things I tend not to agree with. I guess it just frustrates me. That's my bad.

 

And, in actuality, the racist police is relevant to this thread because if we actually do have a civil war in the US, that will be the cause of it. There is no greater cause of civil unrest in the American people than that of minorities being wrongfully punished and abused by the court system as a whole. Otherwise, I really don't see any chance of the US revolting against itself. That's really far fetched.

[BTGBullseye]

And, in actuality, the racist police is relevant to this thread because if we actually do have a civil war in the US, that will be the cause of it. There is no greater cause of civil unrest in the American people than that of minorities being wrongfully punished and abused by the court system as a whole. Otherwise, I really don't see any chance of the US revolting against itself. That's really far fetched.

So you think removing the freedoms of everyone in the entire country only affects the minorities? (that is what is actually going to cause war if it ever happens) Racism is an extremely minor issue anymore, it just gets blown way out of proportion by the media. ("there are very few locations in the USA that have any significant form discrimination, and more often than not it is the minorities that are being intolerant of straight white people" - a quote from 5 different black guys, 3 homosexuals, and dozens of hispanics I've known over the last few years)

[Collective Foal]

I'm glad you can quote your friends on issues and have no actual sourcing for that. That's the problem with everything you say BTG. You don't have actual, valid sources, like ever. The most valid thing you've ever posted as a source that I've seen was a video of a gun nut talking about why he should be allowed to have guns.

 

Sure, I could take you on your word that a 30 or so people you personally know (what a staggering number) think prejudice isn't a problem in our society, or I can just look at the newspapers and see that black men are on death row for killing police officers in no-knock raids while white men get away scot free

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/10/texas-no-knock-swat-raid

 

And that in the US, 3 transgender individuals, all of whom were black, have been murdered in the past 23 days.

http://www.whas11.com/story/news/crime/2015/01/09/fern-valley-shooting/21498755/

http://www.pghlesbian.com/2015/01/trans-woman-of-color-lamia-beard-murdered-in-norfolk/

http://www.washingtonblade.com/2015/01/28/transgender-woman-killed-texas/

 

If there's going to be a civil war, it's going to be caused by injustice to minority groups, as I said before. And also as I said before, I don't think that's likely, because as our generations pass through, we're becoming more and more on the right track with how we treat our fellow humans. Peaceful minds and virtues of love are becoming more prevalent everywhere, and that will help us achieve peace and good in the world and help to limit the number of wars we fight and lives we take.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Guest (see edit history)

[BTGBullseye]

You're saying that because the media is saying that it's the biggest issue in modern history, that it must be true?