Are people, on average, completely stupid?

[Im_CIA]

Most elitists and fedora tipping contrarians would undoubtedly answer "yes". And their opinions are pretty justified. How else would you explain things like Trump's popularity, the state of Congress, ISIS, Michael Bay etc? The world has to be 95% retarded for those things to happen and exist, right? Only those few, that do their own research and tip their toes in almost every topic known to man, are considered to be a cut above the rest, right?

 

Well, recently found a counter view point. Our combined knowledge far exceeds our individual capacity for retaining knowledge, so *all of us*, without exception, are completely ignorant about most of what is really going on the world. I mean, how can we not be? Behind every simple sounding concept is heavily nuanced mess that only real specialists in that field can make sense of. What difference does it make if one person reads more than the next, if our level of ignorance is almost universally the same across the board, except for the fact that we may personally specialize in some things?

 

Here's a great excerpt from "A Study in Scarlet" to illustrate my point :

 

His ignorance was as remarkable as his knowledge. Of contemporary literature, philosophy and politics he appeared to know next to nothing. Upon my quoting Thomas Carlyle, he inquired in the naivest way who he might be and what he had done. My surprise reached a climax, however, when I found incidentally that he was ignorant of the Copernican Theory and of the composition of the Solar System. That any civilized human being in this nineteenth century should not be aware that the earth traveled round the sun appeared to be to me such an extraordinary fact that I could hardly realize it.

 

"You appear to be astonished," he said, smiling at my expression of surprise. "Now that I do know it I shall do my best to forget it."

 

"To forget it!"

 

"You see," he explained, "I consider that a man's brain originally is like a little empty attic, and you have to stock it with such furniture as you choose. A fool takes in all the lumber of every sort that he comes across, so that the knowledge which might be useful to him gets crowded out, or at best is jumbled up with a lot of other things so that he has a difficulty in laying his hands upon it. Now the skillful workman is very careful indeed as to what he takes into his brain-attic. He will have nothing but the tools which may help him in doing his work, but of these he has a large assortment, and all in the most perfect order. It is a mistake to think that that little room has elastic walls and can distend to any extent. Depend upon it there comes a time when for every addition of knowledge you forget something that you knew before. It is of the highest importance, therefore, not to have useless facts elbowing out the useful ones."

 

"But the Solar System!" I protested.

 

"What the deuce is it to me?" he interrupted impatiently; "you say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or to my work."

 

Now this doesn't imply that there are no dumb people. A dumb person is someone who lacks the capacity to learn any useful skill. Most people on Earth have at least one trade or specialization... can we honestly say that one is smarter than the other just because s/he has acquired a bit more superficial knowledge about the world?

[Psychotic Ninja]

I feel like this should go into the Serious Topic section.

[Im_CIA]

I feel like this should go into the Serious Topic section.

Maybe. But I thought it was too abstract for that.

[Heliocentrical]

Interesting point, from my perspective humans have the capacity to know everything or know nothing and between those two extremes are grey areas. I would tend to say the vast majority of people lean more towards the latter and when I say extreme I mean it. Rather then simply not care about a subject these people will go out of their way to destroy said subject because they feel it poses some sort of threat to them. What kind of threat? Well they couldn't tell you outside of their kneejerk reactions. The focus is on the potential of a threat rather than if a threat actually exists because that's the way the media has always presented it's illusions. This is why IMO gun control nuts are on the same level homophobic nuts. Once you boil them down they're just attempting to destroy something they have no understanding of. These people also lack free will but that's a completely different topic. The only difference is that the left is currently being favored by the media presumably for financial reasons. 10-20 years ago the right was favored by the media because it made financial sense at the time. The media are shills for wherever the money and power is flowing from. The media will run an inevitably suicidal and destructive course in which it will fragment everything because the media knows how to influence/control people.

 

But to answer your poll we'll inevitably be influenced by the media(myself included) to some degree even if we'd like to think that we're objective people, independent from influences. In summary we are all stupid though some more so than others.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Guest (see edit history)

[Jeb_CC]

I'm not a fan of calling anyone stupid, no matter who that person is, no matter what their intelligence may be. I think every person has some level of intelligence, it's just not seen at times/is somewhere hidden. Everyone specializes in their own unique area. So just because some guy is great at maths or whatever, doesn't mean he's better than the other guy who's not good at maths - because he's probably good at something else. But then again, nobody is really extremely intelligent either. But if some guy has a rather weird opinion different to mine, supports trump, is a gun nut, I dunno, something like that - I wouldn't call them stupid. Their opinions are different for whatever reason they believe, but I'm not going to call them stupid for it. I simply don't understand what their level of thinking is.

 

That's my opinion. X3 Also, moved this to Serious Discussion.

[BTGBullseye]

The interesting thing is, I know my IQ... I've had it tested recently, and I am currently sitting around 160. This officially classes me as 'very superior' or 'genius'. This puts me in the top 0.1% of the world's population for IQ test results.

 

I can tell you right now, this only means that I have a MUCH harder time doing anything with people that don't either have a remarkably high intelligence, or at least understand that my statements about knowing something aren't intended as an insult. Most people refuse to accept the fact that there are people that know more than they do, and when their knowledge or logic is questioned, they become aggressive. (as if you were physically threatening their life by asking why they think X political figure is a better choice when Y candidate fits their own ideals much closer) Unfortunately, the mitigation of those attitudes only tends to be a commonality among those of the higher ranks of intelligence, but not a guarantee. (yes, even smart people can get offended when you ask them to convince you)

 

Normal people aren't stupid, they just don't have certain mental attributes that 'smarter' people have. I know a man who just can't grasp the concept that perpetual motion is impossible, but he could make a killing as a businessman. (I am the opposite, perpetual motion never made even the slightest sense to me, even before I entered preschool, but I couldn't make a buck to save my life) Intelligence has almost never equated to success or fortunes, and usually results in ridicule and failure. (see: Nikola Tesla)

 

I implore all on this forum to not take insult at anything I'm saying here, none of it is intended as such. I know it isn't very well communicating what I'm trying to convey, but it's late, I'm tired, I'm a tad tipsy, and I don't have the time to go back and reword at this time. Please feel free to question anything herein, just don't take offense at it when you do.

[Zaraki]

Not all of us humans are stupid. Sure,we may be flawed as hell,but we're not complete idiots. We may call other people stupid at times,sure,but most of the time we don't really know if that's true.

[GolfClubNinja]

Stupid is a bit to harsh, I would say most people are specialized into one area, have other focuses or are mis-educated/un-able to get education.

 

The people who believe in alternative medicines and creationism are not necessarily stupid, but are misguided or brought into that belief early and are unable to leave it. I think most people can be quite intelligent and rational minded, but something (such as work and family life, unwilling to look into details, belief in something, taking media for granted, etc.) stops them from going to their full potential.

 

However, since most people are like this, I would classify them as "stupid", but not in the terms of basic stupidity and more in the terms of not being at their full potential

[UndeadNecro]

Everybody learns, remembers, and adapts differently. This especially applies to trivial information, since trivial information is subjective to everyone. It is very true that the solar system could be irrelevant to many people for many years to come. Why does somebody *have to* learn a specific piece of knowledge? They don't, that's the thing. The way I see it, you learn whatever you need to get from day to day, and then some extra stuff that you choose to learn. I honestly feel like intelligence is taken too literally. Look at the (forgive me, I forget the name) multiple intelligences test and it's a good example of how many different categories of intelligence you can pick out. You can be intelligent in one thing but be very ignorant in another thing. For example, I'm a flop in sports and trades. I'd say that I'm more of a history person with a bit of biology and chemistry, despite not being the most intelligent in those subjects. Does this mean I'm stupid? No. I just, y'know, haven't learned a lot. Hypothetically, anyone can be taught anything. It's just a matter of being taught it in the first place. I find it incredibly elitist when certain jobs / subjects are limited to certain types of people. If you're not willing to try and teach others your own knowledge, what does that say about you?

 

There's also an obvious difference between whether not somebody wants to learn. Intentional ignorance is a bit odd but, honestly, somebody can choose to be ignorant and still not be "stupid".

 

I'm also somebody who can never create a coherent thought that is easy to understand and I'm fully aware of that.

[BTGBullseye]

The people who believe in alternative medicines and creationism are not necessarily stupid, but are misguided or brought into that belief early and are unable to leave it.

Or, they just find more evidence supporting it, with less people throwing insults and blind hatred from that side. There are a LOT of really smart, and very well educated people that support those beliefs, so don't go knocking them without having incontrovertible proof that they are impossible.

[Im_CIA]

Interesting point, from my perspective humans have the capacity to know everything or know nothing and between those two extremes are grey areas. I would tend to say the vast majority of people lean more towards the latter and when I say extreme I mean it. Rather then simply not care about a subject these people will go out of their way to destroy said subject because they feel it poses some sort of threat to them. What kind of threat? Well they couldn't tell you outside of their kneejerk reactions. The focus is on the potential of a threat rather than if a threat actually exists because that's the way the media has always presented it's illusions. This is why IMO gun control nuts are on the same level homophobic nuts. Once you boil them down they're just attempting to destroy something they have no understanding of. These people also lack free will but that's a completely different topic. The only difference is that the left is currently being favored by the media presumably for financial reasons. 10-20 years ago the right was favored by the media because it made financial sense at the time. The media are shills for wherever the money and power is flowing from. The media will run an inevitably suicidal and destructive course in which it will fragment everything because the media knows how to influence/control people.

 

But to answer your poll we'll inevitably be influenced by the media(myself included) to some degree even if we'd like to think that we're objective people, independent from influences. In summary we are all stupid though some more so than others.

1. How is it possible to know everything without the depth of our understanding being more shallow than a puddle?

2. Yeah, I agree that the media has a profound impact on us. And this raises and interesting meta-question: how is Accursed Farms affecting us?

The interesting thing is, I know my IQ... I've had it tested recently, and I am currently sitting around 160. This officially classes me as 'very superior' or 'genius'. This puts me in the top 0.1% of the world's population for IQ test results.

 

I can tell you right now, this only means that I have a MUCH harder time doing anything with people that don't either have a remarkably high intelligence, or at least understand that my statements about knowing something aren't intended as an insult. Most people refuse to accept the fact that there are people that know more than they do, and when their knowledge or logic is questioned, they become aggressive. (as if you were physically threatening their life by asking why they think X political figure is a better choice when Y candidate fits their own ideals much closer) Unfortunately, the mitigation of those attitudes only tends to be a commonality among those of the higher ranks of intelligence, but not a guarantee. (yes, even smart people can get offended when you ask them to convince you)

 

Normal people aren't stupid, they just don't have certain mental attributes that 'smarter' people have. I know a man who just can't grasp the concept that perpetual motion is impossible, but he could make a killing as a businessman. (I am the opposite, perpetual motion never made even the slightest sense to me, even before I entered preschool, but I couldn't make a buck to save my life) Intelligence has almost never equated to success or fortunes, and usually results in ridicule and failure. (see: Nikola Tesla)

 

I implore all on this forum to not take insult at anything I'm saying here, none of it is intended as such. I know it isn't very well communicating what I'm trying to convey, but it's late, I'm tired, I'm a tad tipsy, and I don't have the time to go back and reword at this time. Please feel free to question anything herein, just don't take offense at it when you do.

I know that some have a greater grasp of logic and a higher capacity for knowledge. I guess, I was just raising a question of whether or not the intellectual gap between the average joe and, say, the 95th percentile is of any significance at all, considering that no can even scratch the surface of all the accumulated knowledge of mankind. Also, perpetual motion is possible in classical mechanics, according to the law of inertia.

[Heliocentrical]

1. How is it possible to know everything without the depth of our understanding being more shallow than a puddle?

Both extremes I presented are assumptions so that I'm able to establish a scale from knowing nothing to knowing everything. We haven't destroyed all knowledge nor have we obtained all of it.

2. Yeah, I agree that the media has a profound impact on us. And this raises and interesting meta-question: how is Accursed Farms affecting us?

The only agenda Ross has is that he wants to prevent games being killed. An agenda I was already in full support of years ago before he started this movement. My overall opinion is pretty similar to Ross's and that probably goes for everyone on this forum. That's a huge difference from just taking on opinion based on what the media has present the subject as.

[Descriptor]

In regards to people all seeming stupid, I blame the internet.

 

Or rather, I blame the Dunning-Kruger effect being amplified by the internet.

That is, actual stupid people tend to be deafeningly loud, and due to how the internet works, it makes them look like the majority, while the actual majority of people just kinda sit around and don't speak up because they feel out-numbered, or otherwise don't feel qualified to actually correct anyone. Combine that with a money-hungry media pointing the cameras at these very entertaining idiots (notice a trend in this discussion?) and you get a very stupid looking society.

 

But then, if that were true, we probably wouldn't have gotten as far as we have.

I just hope we can keep it going at this point, but man, these elections, right?

[Im_CIA]

The only agenda Ross has is that he wants to prevent games being killed. An agenda I was already in full support of years ago before he started this movement. My overall opinion is pretty similar to Ross's and that probably goes for everyone on this forum. That's a huge difference from just taking on opinion based on what the media has present the subject as.

Maybe Ross is in cahoots with Big Alternative Energy.

But in all seriousness, this site does lean a bit left in most things, but it's by far one of the most balanced forums.

[Heliocentrical]

Maybe Ross is in cahoots with Big Alternative Energy.

But in all seriousness, this site does lean a bit left in most things, but it's by far one of the most balanced forums.

I don't think it's left leaning. Though at one point Ross did express interest in the idea of getting paid for just being a citizen. Then again he wasn't given any alternatives so I suspect he was just pinned into a corner. There's as many right leaning people here as there are left leaning people. The very definition of balanced.

[arsenicCatnip]

The interesting thing is, I know my IQ... I've had it tested recently, and I am currently sitting around 160. This officially classes me as 'very superior' or 'genius'. This puts me in the top 0.1% of the world's population for IQ test results.

 

How fucking delusional can you get, you're probably the dumbest motherfucker in this thread

[Jeb_CC]

Hiss, hiss, Username. Not putting up with that language. > Behave. If you don't like what BTG has to say, don't say anything in response. You don't HAVE to reply. So if you have nothing else to add to the thread that is actually on topic and nice, then don't take part in the thread.

[BTGBullseye]

Also, perpetual motion is possible in classical mechanics, according to the law of inertia.

But only in a true vacuum... Which doesn't exist. There is always some external force being exerted, (friction, etc.) which means that in this context it is impossible.

 

I don't think it's left leaning.

I'll make a thread with a poll asking what president people would most want, and not provide anything else... Even asking that nobody discuss the candidates or their positions... I'll bet that with full participation, there will be less than 10% that would vote for Trump, and he's the only candidate that isn't on the left. (and very obviously so)

[Descriptor]

Also, perpetual motion is possible in classical mechanics, according to the law of inertia.

But only in a true vacuum... Which doesn't exist. There is always some external force being exerted, (friction, etc.) which means that in this context it is impossible.

 

I don't think it's left leaning.

I'll make a thread with a poll asking what president people would most want, and not provide anything else... Even asking that nobody discuss the candidates or their positions... I'll bet that with full participation, there will be less than 10% that would vote for Trump, and he's the only candidate that isn't on the left. (and very obviously so)

Now that's not really fair. I know lot's of Republicans who hate Trump because he's a loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules, and would rather vote for say, Clinton, because at least you know what she will do. Most folks would not vote for Trump because he's terrible, not because he's (nominally) Republican.

 

Plus, for the sake of the argument, I will agree that most internet forums lean left, but that's more because people on the internet tend to be younger, and younger people tend to historically be left leaning (thus the phrase, "People who aren't Liberal in their 20s don't have a heart, and people who aren't Conservative in their 30s don't have a brain.". It's a joke, though, so don't worry about it if you (the reader) is offended by it.). That being said, I'd say there are more Conservative folks on here than, say, average.

Although, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of folks here were Moderate, more than anything (myself included).

[BTGBullseye]

Now that's not really fair. I know lot's of Republicans who hate Trump because he's a loose cannon who doesn't play by the rules, and would rather vote for say, Clinton, because at least you know what she will do. Most folks would not vote for Trump because he's terrible, not because he's (nominally) Republican.

I would like to see proof of any of those accusations. (except the 'doesn't play by the rules' one, as that's a plus in my book)

 

Clinton, we may know what she'll do, but I absolutely refuse to be a willing participant in any of it.