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I did a little superficial investigation, and it seems you're correct about the left regimes having killed more in raw numbers. TY for correcting me :)

“I think it only makes sense to seek out and identify structures of authority, hierarchy, and domination in every aspect of life, and to challenge them; unless a justification for them can be given, they are illegitimate, and should be dismantled, to increase the scope of human freedom.”
― Noam Chomsky

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@Lu

 

No worries. There are a lot of people out there that refuse to learn history, and just blindly believe the talking points of those that want to make the world a worse place for everyone. I'm glad you aren't one of them. :)

Don't insult me. I have trained professionals to do that.

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Only the ones CELEBRATING or JUSTIFYING this heinous act are the ones who are evil. Hell, I'm a moderate leftist, but compared to these demons I'm "extreme right".

my brother in christ for as long as i have known you you have been nothing but right wing. i've seen you deny climate change, push conspiracy theories, use alex jones as a source, you even said you were a single issue voter for the criminalization of abortion at one point. unless you've somehow changed in the past 5 years i seriously doubt you approach anything even resembling halfhearted centrism. name ONE SINGULAR left wing position you hold, and i'm not talking about something stupid like "legalize weed".

 

either this is the shallowest possible attempt at framing your position as "moderate left" so everyone seems insane by comparison, or you are genuinely so deluded that you don't know what words mean.

 

:33

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I did a little superficial investigation, and it seems you're correct about the left regimes having killed more in raw numbers. TY for correcting me :)

Could ya try doing some non-superficial investigation? What did you even look at that drove you to this heel-turn?

Edited by Deep Dive Devin (see edit history)

 

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calling totalitarian regimes that collaborated with fascists, suppressed "degenerate" art and culture, murdered dissidents, and did A LOT ethnic cleansing and genocide "left" because they called themselves communist is about as asinine as calling the nazis "left" because they called themselves socialist. 

Edited by arsenicCatnip (see edit history)

:33

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It sure is convenient, huh? This thread started out saying the left perpetrates and celebrates more political violence in the US, but the second someone challenged that & refuted it with receipts of the propagandists saying it openly engaging in this behavior, suddenly the goalposts move.

 

Now it's conservatives redefining leftism to whatever convenient thing they hate regardless of the context of the modern left, because that's a thing conservatives can argue about until the sun blows up. Pointing at a blue-haired lady and yelling "YOU'RE LIKE STALIN!" until I get banned from the Arby's.

 

I'm sure this is just a coincidence, and burying the lede isn't a common tactic with reactionaries online. How fortuitous for the right that we now are in a conversation they can ignore any context about until the sun blows up.

 

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So... Charlie Kirk got murdered in front of his wife and children, and thousands of people on the left are openly cheering all over social media. So much for the "party of tolerance" for open debate and differing opinions.

I've heard that most movers on the American left, a la Bernie, actually condemned the murder and sent their condolences, which makes believe that this is an algo-mob based assessment. To be honest, I've barely took notice of CK before his voice box got vented, so it has a been a somewhat surreal experience for me to get my bearings.

 

On hand, political violence is a destabilizing accelerant that can only hasten our demise.
On the other, I think MAGA 2 is wearing 30inch clown shoes for turning a shit-talking podcaster into a martyr. Actually, they seem to own multiple pairs for many occasions now, but I digress. 
If "Dark Humor" mfers can't even see the irony of a staunch 2A activist/empathy disbeliever getting this kind of mixed epithet, then they have ripened on the wine and need to be bullied relentlessly. Which I'm more than happy to do :3


But that aside, it seems like CK wanted to release the Epstein files. I think we should turn this point of friction into one of unity. Let's all come together and honor a dead man's noble wish

Edited by Im_CIA (see edit history)

"Fleet Intelligence Coming Online"

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@Im_CIA

Politicians are generally there to try and make their side more palatable to the majority, not to actually represent the beliefs of those they represent.

 

There are literally thousands of people that openly mocked and celebrated Charlie Kirk's assassination in video and text in the first few HOURS of his murder. Tens of thousands have already been fired from sensitive positions over their professed beliefs. (after all, who would want to trust their life to a doctor or nurse who thinks you should be murdered for having different political views)

 

This is something that has NEVER happened with the political right in this country. Every political killing has been condemned completely by virtually everyone on the right, but there are numerous polls showing that a third of the left consider politically motivated violence to be justified, and then there was this celebration by tens of thousands with the media trying as hard as possible to blame it on the right. (or in some cases make the killer seem like he was relatable in all of his views except for going as far as killing over it)

 

A quote that keeps coming back to the forefront of this issue is this: "They don't kill you because you're a Nazi, they call you a Nazi so they can kill you."

 

And another that seems to be gaining traction: "You can't unify with people that want you dead."

Don't insult me. I have trained professionals to do that.

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This is something that has NEVER happened with the political right in this country.

I've literally been posting examples of every dipshit fascist podcaster you quote doing exactly this for the entire thread.

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Tens of thousands have already been fired from sensitive positions over their professed beliefs

The free speech advocacy leaving BTGbullseye's body the second someone is defending the murder of someone who wasn't a woman, minority or leftist. 

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 A quote that keeps coming back to the forefront of this issue is this: "They don't kill you because you're a Nazi, they call you a Nazi so they can kill you."

They call you Nazis because you kill all the same people the Nazis did for the same reason the Nazis did in the same way the Nazis did. There is not, has never been and never will be a wave of deaths based on people being falsely accused of fascism.

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And another that seems to be gaining traction: "You can't unify with people that want you dead."

Such as, for example, people who celebrate the murder of protestors, who call for the genocide of gay and trans people, who deny and justify police murdering citizens, and who delude themselves into believing political violence in this country is not overwhelmingly more common on the right.

Edited by Deep Dive Devin (see edit history)

 

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Could ya try doing some non-superficial investigation? What did you even look at that drove you to this heel-turn?

Tbh I did not feel like spending a few hours attempting to come up with a tally for total deaths for each regime, type of death,  indirect or direct, systematic or granularly intentional. So I did a quick Google search and not a real investigation. Never ask AI these kinds of things, people lol. 

Let's turn back a little on the heel turn. It isn't easy to quantify this, and affirming one side or the other does more killing or violence is more blame assignment than well well-intentioned historical review.

I'll be honest and admit I did give in to BTG's opinion to appease the subject and move on lol. I can do that as a people pleaser and do apologize. I am not as well-informed as I should be on bloody left-wing regimes, and I'll try to inform myself a bit more, just like I studied more right-wing regimes in the past with more detail. 

So rather than focusing on who has done the most harm, we can focus on what we can learn from history itself and not try to assign blame. At least that's what I'll do lol. 

To me, fascists and colonial regimes have been the deadliest. Literally ethnic cleansing, sterilizing native populations, restricting social liberties, and such, but the damage done by supposedly left governments, which have also fallen into authoritarianism, cannot be denied either. 

BTW, I've been absent from this subforum specifically for a long time, so I'm not 100% familiar with everyone's perspective yet. Please be patient with me on that lol. 

“I think it only makes sense to seek out and identify structures of authority, hierarchy, and domination in every aspect of life, and to challenge them; unless a justification for them can be given, they are illegitimate, and should be dismantled, to increase the scope of human freedom.”
― Noam Chomsky

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To me, fascists and colonial regimes have been the deadliest. Literally ethnic cleansing, sterilizing native populations, restricting social liberties, and such, but the damage done by supposedly left governments, which have also fallen into authoritarianism, cannot be denied either. 

I'm not in the business of denying the actions of, say, the USSR or China, make no mistake. Mainly the issue is that the whole debate is a distraction from more specific points, or simply discards the fact that a conservative, traditionalist ideology is going to be resistant to evolution, while progressive politics don't neatly map onto regimes from the 20th century.

 

But when you get into specifics, you see the issue. It's not hard to figure out why, say, eugenics is wrong, even without the Nazi party. There's no actual objective measure for what genes are better than others, and even if there was, political policy restricting the ability for demographics to consensually bear children as they wish, based on that or anything else, is an enormous and destructive attack on people's freedom. There's no separating the genocide out.

 

But like, worker-owned businesses and economies? It's a lot harder to just say "the USSR believed in that, so Winco is doing a holodomor to me personally!". It's always "the left are authoritarians", until the left criticizes the police and military. "If antifascism is so popular, why did the government declare it a terrorist group? Checkmate, liberal". Or how it's kinda hard to justify being on the opposite side of racial equality activists and claim that you're the moral center, that's why the conversation has to become "you're the real racist", because they know "actually racism is good" won't fly. Because the left changes and updates itself, the attacks on it have to update as well, that's why, for instance, trans people have to be sold as a "new phenomenon" and an "attack on women", because conservatives know that feminism actually is popular but don't want to engage with the whole "attacking the exact same groups the Nazi party started on". The enemy is both strong and weak, as they say.

 

Actually, no political movement in history has ever really made trans rights its centerpiece, so I guess lacking a historical scapegoat to compare it to would probably be why they just go back to the old blood libel stuff from the 30s. 

 

That's why they play identity politics; now, criticizing illegal military occupations and ethnic cleansing is antisemitic, so the left were the REAL antisemites all along (nevermind the antisemitism inherent in equating jewish personhood to the actions of a racially-segregated imperialist state). Homophobia isn't real, but the left are the TRUE homophobes when they shit on Dave Rubin or Milo Yiannopolous oh whoops he verbally advocated for child rape? great now we get to call gays pedophiles again. Or hey, in this very thread, saying "this guy is black and gay, therefore he can't possibly be reinforcing any reactionary politics, and you as a leftist have to listen to him".

 

One time, I saw conservatives spamming Occasio-Cortez with an image macro saying "IF YOU HATE WHITE PEOPLE SO MUCH, WHY DID YOU MARRY ONE?", and I think understanding how someone could come to believe that made sense to print will basically let you see the damn matrix every time they open their mouths.

Edited by Deep Dive Devin (see edit history)

 

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I've literally been posting examples of every dipshit fascist podcaster you quote doing exactly this for the entire thread.

No, you haven't. You've been posting out of context soundbites. This is a long-standing problem that has been used to portray people believing the exact opposite of what they actually believe. You actively refuse to watch the full videos of what has actually been said, or acknowledge that you are lying.

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The free speech advocacy leaving BTGbullseye's body the second someone is defending the murder of someone who wasn't a woman, minority or leftist. 

They are free to say whatever they want, so long as it's not advocating for violence. That has ALWAYS been the case. Businesses are also free to fire you for being an inhuman piece of shit. Free speech doesn't mean there are no consequences for your opinions, only that the government won't jail you for speaking your opinions.

 

By the way, where is your defense of free speech with regards to Charlie Kirk? All he did was sit down and talk, and you are trying to justify him be murdered. Hypocrisy isn't a good look for your opinions.

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They call you Nazis because you kill all the same people the Nazis did for the same reason the Nazis did in the same way the Nazis did.

Citation needed.

 

I don't recall any cremation furnaces for Jews being built... (even though several leftist podcasters have been actively calling for stuff like that for years, e.g. Hassan)

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Such as, for example, people who celebrate the murder of protestors, who call for the genocide of gay and trans people, who deny and justify police murdering citizens, and who delude themselves into believing political violence in this country is not overwhelmingly more common on the right.

Citation IN CONTEXT needed.

 

You have a lot of rhetoric, none of which you have provided sources for that correspond with reality. I have provided several videos and links to prove my statements, and you have refused to look at any of them.

Don't insult me. I have trained professionals to do that.

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No, you haven't. You've been posting out of context soundbites. This is a long-standing problem that has been used to portray people believing the exact opposite of what they actually believe. You actively refuse to watch the full videos of what has actually been said, or acknowledge that you are lying. 

The context for conservatives celebrating the murder of people they don't like is that they are celebrating the murder of people they don't like. I don't know why you think I can't see what they're saying, I posted what they're saying and there's no moment in any of these instances where any of them say "just kidding, I actually don't believe any of what I just said".

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They are free to say whatever they want, so long as it's not advocating for violence. That has ALWAYS been the case. 

And not being sad that Chuckie died isn't that, despite what you've implied up till now.

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Businesses are also free to fire you for being an inhuman piece of shit. Free speech doesn't mean there are no consequences for your opinions, only that the government won't jail you for speaking your opinions. 

That sure hasn't been the opinion of every conservative I've seen in my life up until this point, aren't you the ones who have been banging the "cancel culture" drum for the last decade? Please say to me, verbatim,  "everyone who ever fired a conservative for their reactionary politics was justified".

 

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By the way, where is your defense of free speech with regards to Charlie Kirk?

You just answered it. Calls for violence are not protected speech. Not only are you defending institutions and yes, the government, censoring people for non-violent speech about Chuckie (including literally just quoting him in a way that makes him look bad), you are pretending that Chuckie was not constantly, constantly advocating for violence himself. If the left is violent for not being mad about groyper gang violence, then Chuckie is certainly more violent on every possible level for constantly fueling violent conservatism and literally making direct threats in several cases.

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he did was sit down and talk, and you are trying to justify him be murdered. Hypocrisy isn't a good look for your opinions.

 

I haven't justified anything, you're hallucinating again. The only person who can reliably be stated to have justified the gun violence that killed Chuckie Smallface is Chuckie himself. He was quite literally spreading false statistics about trans people to influence violence against them in the moment before he died.

 

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Citation needed.

 

I don't recall any cremation furnaces for Jews being built... (even though several leftist podcasters have been actively calling for stuff like that for years, e.g. Hassan)

"Citation needed, but anyway here's some shit I made up with no citation, because I'm innately better and don't need one"

 

And of course there are no "cremation furnaces" being built. That's not what the Nazis did to kill immigrants either. You somehow made an argument so bad here that I'd have to correct you by saying "the death camps aren't literally using zyklon B" if you wanted to make the correct version of your insanely bad argument.

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Citation IN CONTEXT needed. 

The context is that conservatives believe and say all of this.

 

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You have a lot of rhetoric, none of which you have provided sources for that correspond with reality. I have provided several videos and links to prove my statements, and you have refused to look at any of them.

 

You really haven't, though. You've put links that you SAY justify anything, but then they don't actually do that. And unlike me, you've never even made an attempt to explain anything. You just say "this proves it" and then think rhetoric isn't actually important for you.

 

Your entire philosophy here seems to be "I get to tell you what to do, you don't get to tell me what to do". 

Edited by Deep Dive Devin (see edit history)

 

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And of course there are no "cremation furnaces" being built. That's not what the Nazis did to kill immigrants either.

Ok, I'm done with you permanently. You refuse to do anything in good faith, and constantly lie. Goodbye, hopefully one day you will cease being a complete idiot.

Don't insult me. I have trained professionals to do that.

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You're calling me a liar because I'm acting in good faith. Your quote of "bad faith" here is me, literally making the argument you should have used for you! It's clear from your own hypocrisy that you view honesty and conformity as the same thing. I wear your hate as a badge of honor.

 

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I personally think that Tyler Robinson was framed by Lyndon Johnson's Texas oil cabal and Charlie Kirk was shot from the back by Malcolm Wallace - one of LBJ's staffers. The reason why it happened is that LBJ was under scrutiny for the Billie Sol Estes agriculture scandal and he needed to kill Charlie Kirk to force an end to the investigation, so with Clint Murchison and Haroldson L. Hunt behind him, Johnson had Clifton C. Carter organize the hit with the aforementioned Mac Wallace and a second shooter who remains anonymous at this time. But if you go back and to the left enough time, you notice th

There are four lights!

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