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THE GUI SHOULD BE BETTER

If you ever wanted to know all my thoughts on the GUI, here you are! This has honestly been brewing in my mind for decades and while this video took way too long to make, it’s an accomplishment for me that I was able to put this into something coherent. I’m really hoping this leads to somebody bestowing GUI enlightenment upon us, though I’m not betting on it.

This post also doubles as a thread for people to post any helpful information regarding my GUI quest at the end of the video. Thanks in advance for anyone who finds some answers!

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Something that didn't occur to me until today. CircleDock is open source and C# based. At least the most recent version is. This might be something fun I can mess with in my off time. I emphasize might because I am very bad at sticking with projects for any amount of actual time.

 

EDIT: Ok, so based on my research, something weird happened wtih CircleDock. The short version is that the .NET version was prototyped by one person before another developer picked up the torch. Then they basically deleted all of their work because they felt trapped by the GPL license that they had inherited. To make a long story short, the version of CircleDock you can find on SourceForge is nowhere near the most recent version of the program. Furthermore, the source code is not the same version as the compiled version of the code. There is some basic functionality missing there. Trying to make it better based on what is already in source code form would be quite a challenge.

Edited by Inglonias (see edit history)

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20 hours ago, Inglonias said:

so based on my research, something weird happened wtih CircleDock.

Yeah I discovered this too. The original developer Eric Wong (VideoInPicture) disappeared in 2008 with version 0.9 being his last release. Mark Hamilton (Markham) continued development but didn't release the updated source code as required by the GPL3 license, only the binaries. So donationcoder eventually removed these newer versions over a licensing compliance dispute. You can read all about the drama this caused here. Fortunately, you can still find the last 1.5 version on softpedia, but it's source code is not available and the original 0.9.2 source seems to be missing important dependencies, which makes it not very useful. It's all a real shame because I was also thinking about trying to improve upon it some.

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My idea of perfect ui is reducing the need of ui whatsoever. Instead of having millions of different programs opened at all times, have only one, or maybe 3-4. This one program is your webbrowser, text editor, file manager, image viewer/editor, music player, all in one.

 

My plan was making all that starting from text editor. I stole the vim idea of using one key hotkeys (without pressing ctrl or anything), but simplified it even more. Let me describe hotkeys.

 

There are multiple modes: navigation mode, edit mode, selection mode. In edit mode, your keys will be typed in as text. In navigation mode, each key has different function:

 

ijkl -- up left down right
s -- enter selection mode
shift-s -- select the whole line
ctrl-s -- select the current function (and copy it)
g -- go to the beginning of the document
shift-g -- go to the end of the document
xcv -- cut copy paste
z -- undo
shift-z -- redo
e -- go to the beginning of word
r -- go to the end of word
shift-e -- go to the beginning of line
shift-r -- go to the end of line
d -- delete character under cursor, or all selected text
w -- save document
q -- close document
shift-q -- close document without saving
; -- open file under cursor
shift-; -- copy path of currently opened file
u -- open the folder this file is in
/ -- search
. -- next search result
, -- previous search result
p -- previous cursor position
n -- next cursor position
shift-p -- previous document
shift-n -- next document
I need to make a hotkey to show the list of all opened documents. Or to just make tabs.

 

So, I did a glitchy as hell text editor, and too lazy to move further. Need to rewrite it to make it less terrible. I originally just used vim, then I used vim mode in emacs and heavily edited, then I just said screw it and made my own thing.

 

Oh, also using rightclick to cancel or go back is a neat idea, I stole it from japanese visual novels. I used it in my mangareader.

 

And I mapped CapsLock to escape in autohotkey. This is where escape used to be on older keyboards. It sometimes passes through, and still triggers capslock, happens very rarely and when my computer is under heavy load.

 

And check out Kingsway game, its core gameplay is trying to fit million windows open on your screen. Tiling window manager would probably be good there, but it's overkill, tabs are usually good enough.

 

Oh, I also liked the way ui is made in world of warcraft addons. You tell to what you want to attach your next element, to some side of the screen, or to some already existing element. Traditional ui, on windows or on html pages is made much more clumsily, it feels more like making a document on paper, line after line after line.

 

Blender3d is famous for its hard to learn, but comfortable to use gui. Never learned it well enough.

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Posted (edited)

oh god please no, i took a glance at that controls list and i want to die

 

i'm the complete opposite, i REFUSE to add hotkeys, unless it's really generic shit, like ctr + s for saving stuff

everything else is buttons, i hate having to memorize crap either way, and i hate it when i tap some random key and i end up deleting half my project away

 

blender 3d sucks donkey kong, it's the worst user interface on the planet, comfortable is not what i would call it, i think "giant convoluted piece of shit" is closer to the truth

Edited by RaTcHeT302 (see edit history)

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There are many directions to "best". There are "simplier", there are "faster", there are "easy to learn". Usually they contradict each other.

 

Blender is good in that there are rarely windows that block other windows, everything is on the screen simultaniously. You press one button, you see effect in the other view immediately. It's not that people are used to, but it's really fast when you know what you are doing.

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11 hours ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

oh god please no, i took a glance at that controls list and i want to die

 

i'm the complete opposite, i REFUSE to add hotkeys, unless it's really generic shit, like ctr + s for saving stuff

everything else is buttons, i hate having to memorize crap either way, and i hate it when i tap some random key and i end up deleting half my project away

 

blender 3d sucks donkey kong, it's the worst user interface on the planet, comfortable is not what i would call it, i think "giant convoluted piece of shit" is closer to the truth

 

100% in agreement. This is why GUIs exist, so you don't have to memorize dozens of obscure shortcuts for each different program. (which is one of the biggest problems with command line Linux programs, compounded by the lack of documentation)

Don't insult me. I have trained professionals to do that.

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Good luck playing rts professionally without hotkeys. This approach is why gui doesn't change, because users refuse to change.

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lmao what

 

does this look like an rts game to you? are we just making up shit now?

 

qRzfu3y.png

 

this is one of the best UIs i've ever used as far as media editing tools go, it's so easy to use compared to everything else on the market

 

plus who the hell plays an rts game with JUST HOTKEYS, like you have to be a really boring person to do that, i enjoy building a town, relaxing, and beating my enemy up, i'm not some hardcore nerd who has 3 billion APM, jeez, why would i ever care about dumb hotkeys of all things?

 

(apm = actions per minute, or how fast you can click your mouse and how many keyboard buttons you can push in a short amount of time) (most rts players just spam left clicks, to make their APM look really big, even though they aren't actually doing anything, apm is a circlejerk thing for the most part to make ppl look like they are better at the game, than they are, just because they can CLICK FAST WOW)

 

i just wanna have fun, don't design UI for the vocal 1% guys, that's dumb, the 1% never knows what they are talking about, they don't know what's good for everybody, the 1% is selfish and it looks out after itself, never base your UI on feedback from a minority who wants everything to be MORE difficult of all things, that's idiotic

 

you guys wouldn't know what a good UI is even if you used one

honestly most people are dumb and they should never be allowed to create user interfaces for media tools, or anything really

 

i've seen really good user interfaces who people shit on just because there aren't 10 fucking trillion buttons exposed at once

like, apparently having a tool that's as minimalistic as possible, and gets the job done, IS THE WORST THING ON THE PLANET

 

no, give me like 50 buttons i'll NEVER, BE ABLE, TO EVEN USE, AT ONCE

 

why?? YOU CAN ONLY DO, ONE ACTION AT ONCE, WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT THAT MANY FUNCTIONS TO BE VISIBLE AT ALL TIMES

 

beyond the fact that it makes learning how to use ANYTHING dauntingly difficult, i basically never use 99% of the user interface anyway, so why is all software so fucking bloated with pointless ass functionality?

 

i can get a lot done with sony vegas here, but man adobe premiere? i'd rather kill myself, that thing is fucking horrible, I CAN'T DO ANYTHING, SONY VEGAS JUST WORKS, I CAN DO STUFF, IT'S ACTUALLY NOT A HORRIBLE TOOL, YOU CAN CREATE THINGS

 

i'm so tired of having to use these piece of shit user interfaces, WHEN OLDER TOOLS DID THE JOB BETTER, AND MORE EASILY

 

the only reason as to why i can't keep using the old tools, is because people are fucking retarded, and they want the SHINIEST NEW THING on the planet every two seconds, so the tool is either horribly broken, because modern day update systems are retarded, or it has a crippling problem which stops me from using it, OR it lacks a very important feature, which other tools have, and if the developers could be bothered to stop being lazy assholes, and update the old tool, it would OBLITERATE the competition

 

but no instead we just, abbandon perfectly fine tools, and we throw them away, for no good reason at all

BECAUSE THE NEW TOOL LOOKS PRETTIER GUYS, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S BASICALLY UNUSABLE

 

bleh

 

if you are so smart then make your damn UI because i've had enough of dealing with all this bloated ass, piece of shit software, and it's really starting to piss me off just how fucking horrible everything turns out to be, NOBODY WANTS THINGS TO BE SIMPLE AND EASY, NOBODY WANTS TO ACTUALLY CREATE THINGS

 

i feel like i'm losing my mind when i tell people that, NO YOUR UI DOES SUCK, I'VE SEEN IT BEFORE, IT WAS DONE BETTER, YOU ARE NOT ORIGINAL OR SMART BECAUSE YOU MADE IT REALLY FUCKING CONVOLUTED, YOU ARE A DUMBASS

 

seriously look at this, what's wrong with it?? JUST BECAUSE IT'S OLD, IT DOESN'T AUTOMATICALLY MAKE IT SHIT JESUS

 

D6UTYu8.png

 

THE TEXTURING TOOLS, THE MODELLING TOOL, OH MY GOD THEY ARE SO EASY TO USE?? WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE

SERIOUSLY WHY DOES EVERY TOOL BELIEVE THAT IT HAS TO VOMIT TEN THOUSAND BUTTONS ON ME, I DON'T EVEN NEED THAT SHIT

 

wixkHSd.png

 

OH MY GOD, YOU CAN CLICK AND DRAG, PRECISELY AND EASILY? FUCKING GARBAGE

IT SHOWS YOU THE MEASUREMENTS TOO?? WHAT WHAT A PIECE OF SHIT

 

4nRbdHZ.png

 

NO BECAUSE I LOVE LOOKING INTO SOME TINY ASS CORNER, TO SEE WHAT THE FUCK SIZE MY BRUSHES HAVE

THIS IS GOOD DESIGN APPARENTLY

 

???

 

b7rI6B5.png

 

I'M NOT AN OCTOPUS, I CAN'T MULTI TASK THAT EFFICIENTLY, JESUS CHRIST I CAN ONLY DO, ONE THING, AT THE TIME

I CAN'T LOOK AT 50 THINGS AT ONCE, DO YOU REALLY EXPECT ME TO BE THAT FAST

 

THAT'S RETARDED, WHAT THE HEELLL

 

LOOK

JUST SLAP SOME TEXTURES ON THAT BITCH

BOOM DONE BITCH

 

dUUNClI.png

 

YO UV'S ALIGNED AND SHIET, NONE OF THAT MANUAL ASS BULLSHIET

HOLY FUCK

 

oh you can actually create shit easily and quickly with this? nope sorry, this user interface clearly sucks, i mean it doesn't have ten trillion buttons

 

i don't even need anything more beyond these buttons, and hell i could remove 3 of these and still have enough functionality

(the zoom icon, the camera icon and the apply texture buttons are worthless, never used them)

 

3gfk1tA.png

 

why the fuck are these considered good uis? WHY THE FUCK IS THIS INDUSTRY STANDARD, THE INDUSTRY IS RETARDED THAT'S WHY

 

OH YEAH BECAUSE I CONSTANTLY NEED THIS STUPID SIDE BAR 24/7 OR I WON'T GET ANYTHING DONE

 

vrXYAwy.png

 

no i mean, the source engine? basically fucking garbage, it doesn't have this stupid shit constantly on the right side?

 

SggnUff.png

 

oh jeez having to double click on entities, to bring up a new window, where you edit all their details, IS SO OUTDATED, AND BAD, OH MY GOD, HOW HORRIBLE, IT'S ALL NICELY SPACED OUT, AND IT'S EASY TO READ?? NO LET ME CRAM TEN THOUSAND DETAILS INTO A TINY ASS CORNER, WITH TINY ASS TEXT AND HARD TO PUSH BUTTONS, AND ANNOYING AS FUCKING SLIDERS

 

BECAUSE CONSTANTLY HAVING TO SCROLL TO FIND ONE TINY PIECE OF SHIT OPTION IS SUCH GOOD FUCKING DESIGN

 

why???

 

it's not like i want the editor to be immersive or anything, no i want to constantly have bullshit useless ass windows, which take up space, which I CANNOT USE, BECAUSE I CAN ONLY DO ONE ACTION, AT ONCE

 

I LOVE HAVING A BARRAGE OF CONSTANTLY USELESS INFORMATION, OR FUNCTIONALITY, WHICH I CAN'T EVEN USE

 

but this is good ui design apparently...

 

also what the fuck is this unity, jesus fucking christ look at how TINY THE GAME WINDOW IS, WHAT THE HELL

 

veBLHPT.png

 

oh my god this is the worst fucking thing on the planet, HOW DO PEOPLE MAKE GAMES WITH THIS, AND NOT LOSE THEIR GOD DAMN MINDS

 

anybody who claims that this is good ui design, doesn't know what they are talking about, and they can honestly go fuck themselves, the source engine is A DREAM TO USE, compared to most dumbass modern day engines

 

SERIOUSLY WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS

42zh2z3.jpg

 

THIS IS SKYRIM'S ENGINE

THAT'S SKYRIM

 

SOMEONE THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA FOR A USER INTERFACE

 

WHAT THE FUCK

 

seriously what the fuck, half the fucking time i'm wasting it looking for some dumbass, tiny ass button, just to get the functionality i want

 

HALF OF MY TIME, IS WASTED, JUST TRYING TO FIND THE DAMN TOOL I NEED, IT'S SO FUCKING IDIOTIC

 

WHO THE HELL THINKS, IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO THROW ALL THIS BULLSHIT AT YOU

WHO THE FU-

 

seriously the industry's idea of good if to chop your fucking hands off

why is MAKE THE UI LOOK LIKE AN EXCEL SPREADSHEET AND MAKE IT BASICALLY UNUSABLE, AND HAVE NO CONSISTENCY, the default for a lot of these?

Edited by RaTcHeT302 (see edit history)

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honestly if anybody tells me that i'm wrong, you straight up don't know what you are talking about, and you've never worked on a large project in your whole life - like hammer fucking sucks sometimes but i can get more done with it, than with any other piece of shit engine on the market

 

THE SOURCE ENGINE, JUST KNOWS, HOW TO GET THINGS DONE

 

IT ACTUALLY, WORKS

 

I CAN ACTUALLY, CREATE

 

 

n3G3bCe.png

 

good job modern game engines, high five

 

a shit i missed the high five I LAUNCHED A FUCKING NUCLEAR MISSILE, WE ARE ALL GONNA DIE, BUAGHH

 

i hate you all, please don't design user interfaces everrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

look, you can make a case that hammer has a fucking piece of shit model browser \ texture browser, and i won't disagree, but it's the only fucking tool, where it ACTUALLY LETS ME DO, BASIC SHIT, REALLY REALLY FAST, AND REALLY REALLY EASILY

 

AND THAT'S 99% OF GAME DEVELOPMENT, BASIC SIMPLE ASS SHIT

WHY THE FUCK IS IT ALL SO FUCKING COMPLICATED, WHEN LITERALLY WHAT YOU DO HALF THE TIME, IS MINOR BULLSHIT

 

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

 

fuck modern day UIs, they are fucking garbage pieces of shit and people are too fucking incompetent to actually make a good ui

 

GOOD. GOD.

Edited by RaTcHeT302 (see edit history)

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okay... remember that nuclear missile joke

 

VQBjy2r.png

 

THAT ACTUALLY FUCKING HAPPENED, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME

 

fuck me rant over, that last part alone broke me

 

I WAS JUST JOOOOKING, I DID NOT THINK I WOULD MAKE A GOOD POINT WITH A THROW AWAY JOKE

BUAGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

THIS PROVES THAT YOU ARE ALL FUCKING STUPID, OH MY GOD

 

NO, YOU CANNOT EVER TOP THIS OFF

ANYBODY WHO TELLS ME, THAT I DON'T KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT, SHOW THEM THIS

 

oh my god, how does a governement FUCK UP THIS BADLY, IT'S NOT EVEN FUNNY, IT'S SAD

 

I MEAN JESUS CHRIST IT'S A FUCKING NUKE, WHAT THE FUCK

 

anyway the conclusion is that linux users are dumb, thanks for following my ted talk

 

ndP5teP.png

 

yeah that post fucking broke me, i'm fucking dead

 

good god... a nuke...

 

B4ZatI3.png

 

THERE IS ONLY PAIN, GORDAN

 

(bear in mind that i'm mostly shitposting so the whole post is exagerated for effect but, points still valid tho)

Edited by RaTcHeT302 (see edit history)

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First off, just wanted to say that this video has been on my mind since I first watched it months ago. Granted, the seed was originally planted by NakeyJakey's take on the same issue, albeit with more normie-oriented apps and video games(Not sure how to embed YouTube links, my bad). Even if Jakey's video isn't as in depth, the general sentiment of saving time in the most repetitive acts someone is going to typically do all the time remains the same and is worth a watch, even if they may be more leisure than production based.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vfbVVkwdQw

 

Needless to say, it's not just power users concerned with clunky and unoptimized UI experiences. Even in this thread was a link to what I assume was a song composer raising issues about the unoptimized experience of his professional software(Sibelius IIRC). Other video editors/streamers probably have a lot of common complaints across the same programs that simply aren't vocalizing because we've become complacent with "good enough to make things run without crashing."

 

For the present, the only thing I can offer to Ross is that in Windows 10 you can navigate explorer only using single click to browse and select files(Right click on quick access, options, should be second option in the first tab).

As far as projects go, VR OS is one of the most innovative concepts I've seen in a while.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMwqiAeQDUc

 

This has some serious potential. To my knowledge this is still a prototype and not in any usable state, but I see the bedrock for the future of optimized workflow and user interface.

Even with the features shown in what I understand is a very early build that's still very much in its infancy, we have;

  • 360° workspace with multiple virtual desktops.

Where we're going, we don't need monitors . . .

In a virtual desktop environment the need for multiple monitors is eliminated, since workspace can literally surround you in a bubble. The bridge with programs ready at the top and bottom, combined with multiple desktops with different sets of programs/files open is bound to make organization and production a breeze.

  • AR tracked Keyboard and Mouse with finger tracking

I think this has the most potential out of everything else showcased. Since the keys change in context with the active window, the physical keys on the keyboard becomes part of the GUI experience!

Now this may just be speculation on my part, but I think the reason changing gears from staring at your screen to looking down at the keyboard has to do with changing focus from the glowing rectangle in front of you to the keyboard directly below; But in a Virtual desktop everything's already glowing, and a simple glance down lets you see the relative position of your fingers over the keys, along with the keys changing context depending on the program. So even if the changing of the gears isn't completely gone, it's at least diminished, and with the display of hotkeys directly on the keyboard, I suspect it will make navigating via both easier. The problem of having to learn hotkeys is gone because you can simply look at your keyboard like a giant menu; and if they're smart in the layout, multiple keys can serve as "zones" where an action may be(ex. Q, W, E, A, S, & D acting as one zone that activates a function, R, T, Y, F, G, & H, activating another, etc.). This also leans to more airplanes and less helicopters since you don't have to be as precise with your keystrokes. In the long run this can even develop into muscle memory, making users faster in the long run too.

  • 3D viewing for supported programs

This is a must for anyone interested in CADD, 3D modelling, or game modding in general. Being able to get a sense of scale for things you create in real time is such a liberating feeling and gives a literal new dimension to the work. Aside from productivity, even having something as crude as OVR toolkit in a VR/3D game is great for multitasking, even if it may be at odds with the touted immersion factor that VR is known for.

  • Sharing desktop views with other users near seamlessly

Something that's definitely going to become more commonplace in the future. With the benefits mentioned above, being able to have a unified workflow on a common project is going to be an indispensable tool, assuming it works as shown in the finished product.

 

And this is just a prototype! I already have a growing list of features I want for this.

  • "Big screen" mode that brings a window front and center, taking nearly your whole FOV. Other active programs can be viewed simply by craning your neck to look around the window that demands your most attention, look down at the bridge, or with HMDs that allow eye tracking, make the window transparent when trying to focus beyond it.
  • Programs that can be docked to the keyboard if you prefer a more laptop/typewriter interface(ideal for messaging programs like Discord or Steam messenger)
  • Custom Desktop environments(No brainer, you can do your work in a Mechanis Manufactorum with ambient mechanical loops, or a lush fantasy forest that changes with the time of day outside with the soft howl of wind and songs of birds in the distance depending on your mood.)
  • Quick launch programs by pressing a single keystroke on the desktop environment with the icons displayed on the keyboard itself.
  • Tiling windows in clusters that expand when they're in center view

And that's just with KB+M as an input method! This combined with the Keymouse discussed earlier could give untold speed and productivity, and if you could have multiple cursors you can make Wesker's desktop setup in Resident Evil 4 a reality!(https://youtu.be/LiVvdNmU5r0?t=195)

 

Two cursors could open up a lot of windows(Pun intended). Ross mentioned how he doesn't like the idea of icons in the corner to close programs. A more intuitive(not to mention fun) way to close programs could be to click it with both cursors next to each other, and tear it apart like a piece of paper, window resizing could be handled a similar way by clicking opposite ends of a window and constricting or expanding it with mutual mouse movement. Instead of clicking and dragging, both could be clicked concurrently and both cursors will square up based on relative position to each other. That's just off the top of my head.

 

And this isn't even my ideal input method! Johnny Mnemonic, Minority Report, and Iron Man are closest to my ideal. What I want is a fantasy tech of haptic gloves that have some bit of resistance when interacting with a simulated surface. With that alone, not even a keyboard and mouse will be necessary, even if you like the ergonomics since virtual ones can be substituted easily if you prefer that, but more importantly, will open up to a myriad of gestures that can open programs. I want to tap on my desk and clear all active programs to a clean desktop environment. I want to snap my finger on my right hand to open a web browser, on my left hand to open a file directory, and both concurrently to open a game launcher. If I see something that makes me rage while browsing the internet, I want to pull an Elvis and shoot the offending window, or do a Kamehameha and watch it Derez like Tron Legacy. Navigating my computer should make me feel like a goddamn sorcerer.

 

I don't know if this is anywhere near GUI enlightenment, but damn if it's not a shot.

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58 minutes ago, Cyberhunk said:

normie-oriented apps and video games

the what?

 

58 minutes ago, Cyberhunk said:

I don't know if this is anywhere near GUI enlightenment, but damn if it's not a shot.

idk most of the stuff u are interested in borderlines on pointless gimmicks for me

 

i must be the only person on this planet who has consistently said that most UIs are just crap since i first started using them, but most people don't believe me

it's always easier for people to dismiss me as that one idiot, but now people sorta agree? the internet gives me mixed feelings like nobody else does

 

i mean are people really that afraid to speak up about, basic shit which frustrates them? i don't have the patience for that kinda crap, if something bugs me i'm gonna say it, i just find it odd, not to

 

take valve's new steam ui update, it's shit

now you have this dumbass checkbox system, but before you were able to just click on "tool" and open the damn tools tab

 

instead now i have to go through 10 clicks just to do anything, it's retarded

z6SKCGz.png

 

plus i always hesitate since i can never tell what to click on, i basically hover on this button for a couple of seconds

Js2nIul.png

 

and then i realize that i have to click on this and i always make the same mistake consistently, it always wastes me at least a second

7CyOz9S.png

 

i've seen good user interfaces, so when i say that something is shit and awkward, usually it means that i just used a tool which did the same job before, but better

 

honestly though, the truth is that, i just find the experience to be pretty awful most of the time

 

i would say that you are pretty far away from that, i feel like the truly enlightened should speak of how bad a UI is, when they use it for the first time, before you get used to the crap factor

 

also why 360 degree UIs? man i feel like, some of u guys are thinking almost WAY TOO AHEAD

most people can't do good user interfaces, on flat screens, and you want a 360 view thing? really?

 

plus i hate dumb gimmicks, just give me something functional and let me fuck off so that i can do my work easily and without too much pain, that's all i want from a good user interface, to fuck off when i don't need it, and to be focused on the task at hand

Edited by RaTcHeT302 (see edit history)

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On 10/10/2020 at 9:20 AM, RaTcHeT302 said:

the what?

There are definitely more people on Hulu/Netflix than Curiosity Stream or BitTorrent, and more people playing on mobile/console than a PC. Just pointing out that this is a problem that permeates beyond the PC desktop. Bear in mind, the fact that we're even talking about this puts in in a scant number compared with the majority of people that take issue.

 

On 10/10/2020 at 9:20 AM, RaTcHeT302 said:

idk most of the stuff u are interested in borderlines on pointless gimmicks for me

Can you extrapolate please? I can see that with my eventual end goal of trying to have a Batcave setup that's interfaced with magical gloves, but an AR tracked keyboard with the overlay changing depending on context seems like a straight upgrade to me. I can see that with modern headsets since they're still somewhat bulky and even the original Vive doesn't have enough resolution to properly handle all that small text without a screen door effect, but I'm looking towards the future, free of the shackles of modern design methods and where technology can meet the demand. I'd really like to know where I'm losing you.

 

I can agree that Steam's new UI is shit compared to the old design where near every option was within view, but to my knowledge they allow relatively painless skin replacements, which still makes this an issue, but not as bad as completely taking away the ability to modify as you please. Although that's a whole different can of worms when you start to go into individual programs. As it stands right now, I'm only interested in the desktop/shell, since that's the thing you're going to interact with, no matter what your needs are.

 

On 10/10/2020 at 9:20 AM, RaTcHeT302 said:

also why 360 degree UIs?

I'm not advocating for 360° UIs necessarily, merely a 360° workspace for individual programs.

If you're like me, then 2 monitors is a MINIMUM for regular work/browsing. Aside from how expensive that can be, you're usually only running one program per monitor. This can be easily substituted by the purchase of just one headset, and having as much real estate as you desire for spreading out all of your programs and files in virtual windows the size of monitors, so you still have all that information at the ready.

Edited by Cyberhunk
fucked up a sentence. (see edit history)

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Don't really know much about designing GUI, but I figured if a had an idea as might as well show it. The basic idea is built on the circle idea but when you click m2 and the different programs pop up, instead of moving the cursor in the direction of the program, the cursor disappears and you control the rotation of the wheel. You only need to move the cursor a small amount as the speed of the wheel is move sensitive, and when you have what you want in the general area, clicking it will either open the program or if it's a folder, will either open a small box or another wheel depending on the size.

 

Any ideas?

GUI Idea.png

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if you have to tilt your head to be able to read the text, then the text is kinda useless

 

also that's way too finnicky, circle UIs work stupid well with controllers since, you can basically do 3 things at once in 0.001ms, cuz u can tilt the analog stick into the correct position, and then you just hold the menu button, and you release it, and BOOM you are done

 

an user interface should be predictable, this looks more like a jokey thing than something anyone would actually use

 

i predict that it would be really finnicky, and this would require inhumane amounts of precision, also it's difficult to tell what your options are from one glance, and if your text is longer than the container, then you have to cut it out

 

i think this is trying to do way too many things at once, and it just sorta comes off as gimmicky more than anything

 

i feel like having that thing constantly moving around would just annoy me more than anything else, and i would constantly need to scroll it around to see what my options are, it sounds finnicky

 

i think moving the mouse cursor would feel really unpredictable and finnicky, like it wouldn't surprise me if most people, couldn't even tell in which direction the circle is going, or where their mouse is in general, i think people would get lost with it pretty quickly

 

this is what i'm going for as far as my custom user interface goes, but i'll be using this to open other menus, i'm not sure how i would design an interface for an operating system

 

1662891005_UserInterface.thumb.png.a6b7793c2cc59a8da7f1a114c757d7a1.png

 

figuring out, how i want ppl to interact with it, is the hardest part though, since i want this to be mouse only ideally, but idk maybe i could allow the wasd keys to open the top bottom left right menus idk

Edited by RaTcHeT302 (see edit history)

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like the idea isn't horrible but, i think it would be really impractical, that's all, i don't want you to take my post in the wrong way

 

controllers have a huge advantage with their analog sticks, they are so perfect for a ton of stuff

 

the mouse and keyboard on the other hand, kinda suck at this, they are too precise BY DEFAULT

 

controllers are perfect, they are the OPPOSITE of precise, which is ironically, a great limitation when designing an user interface, meaning that you can totally get away with making a "lazy" UI, but the lack of overall precision means that, most controller based UIs, win by default, as far as the speed goes, versus a mouse

 

it's really hard to design a mouse only UI, since you have to phisically move the mouse, and that sucks

plus any user interfaces which force the user to be even more precise, are ehh

 

so the thought should be, how do we design an user interface, for maximum laziness? minimum effort should be required, that's how i'm approaching it anyway, the user shouldn't have to think, he should be able to just act and do

 

if you constantly need to pause to think, and if you constantly need to stop, so that you can understand what you are looking at, just to do a basic action, to me that means that, the user interface is not working somewhere

 

i hate this constant, "stop, go, think, do", i wish we could skip all those other steps and just have a "do"

 

our UIs are not lazy enough, that's the problem, THEY TAKE TOO MUCH WORK AND EFFORT TO USE, that's why UIs suck, that's why most people have no idea how to design an UI, they are not lazy bastards like i am

 

so i'm thinking, what else could i do to improve my concept, to make it even LAZIER xD

Edited by RaTcHeT302 (see edit history)

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3 hours ago, juan guy said:

Any ideas?

Seems like that would be better activated with a Mouse4+ button instead of Mouse2. M2 simply has too many functions in other programs to be replaced with a quick launcher. It may be personal preference, but I think being controlled via the scroll wheel will work better, especially if you have a mouse that can unlock the scroll wheel, making it faster than the cursor. Good for a mockup but I'd like colored tags for programs as well as pie menus for multiple options once you actually select something, assuming it's no more than 5 or so options, then I think a menu would suffice.

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7 hours ago, Cyberhunk said:

Seems like that would be better activated with a Mouse4+ button instead of Mouse2. M2 simply has too many functions in other programs to be replaced with a quick launcher. It may be personal preference, but I think being controlled via the scroll wheel will work better, especially if you have a mouse that can unlock the scroll wheel, making it faster than the cursor. Good for a mockup but I'd like colored tags for programs as well as pie menus for multiple options once you actually select something, assuming it's no more than 5 or so options, then I think a menu would suffice.

what if you just straight up do not have a mouse with more buttons?

 

you should design an user interface with the general standard in mind, it's a huge gamble to assign basic functionality to advanced or non standard controls

 

and the minimum should be, two mouse buttons - this is stupid but i avoid having the user click his scroll wheel, since from my own experience, my damn scroll wheel always breaks at one point, they are all so poorly made and they never last, and i know that it's stupid but, i'd rather redesign the whole thing so that you can use it with only the mouse buttons

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1 hour ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

what if you just straight up do not have a mouse with more buttons?

 

you should design an user interface with the general standard in mind, it's a huge gamble to assign basic functionality to advanced or non standard controls

 

and the minimum should be, two mouse buttons

I know this is an outdated thing to bring up, but Apple still had one button mice as the standard until the mid-late 2000s. Granted, Microsoft has had that standard for a while, but standards can improve over time depending on market interest. Just searching "computer mouse" on Amazon gives nearly half of the results featuring mice with Mouse4 and 5, some even less than $10. I also think it's safe to assume that if someone's installing custom dock programs for the purpose of increasing efficiency, then they already have a mouse with at least 5 buttons on it since being able to go forward or back while web-browsing with a single button press is a leap a lot of us can't abandon once we've experienced it, and a lot of mainstream games like Doom and Overwatch have the default melee button as Mouse4 if it detects it. Besides, assuming the software is easily configurable, which it should be, the user can just rebind it to Mouse2 or . . .

1 hour ago, RaTcHeT302 said:

this is stupid but i avoid having the user click his scroll wheel, since from my own experience, my damn scroll wheel always breaks at one point, they are all so poorly made and they never last, and i know that it's stupid but, i'd rather redesign the whole thing so that you can use it with only the mouse buttons

. . . You raise a good point. It's not stupid. Nearly every regular desktop mouse I have, and even most gaming mice I've used have had the scroll wheel give out over time if not just break entirely. Just to clarify, I'm not advocating for activating the circle dock with the scroll wheel, merely flicking through the options with the rolling of the scroll wheel, which just lines up more ergonomically with my mode of thinking.

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