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ROSS'S GAME DUNGEON: VEIL OF DARKNESS

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9 hours ago, ultrayoba said:

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I tried playing menzoraban, and it's unplayable for me , the graphics are so bad they make my head hurt. I don't know what they did there but it was pretty bad (In comparison, I played bard's tale 3 and had no such problems, other than the lack of a mini map :) ).

Also played anvil of dawn half way, still need to finish it, but there aren't any good walkthroughs and I don't want to have to start all over because I missed or dropped some part in the middle. I reached the part with the half spiders half babies creatures and I'm thoroughly freaked out.

Edited by kerdios (see edit history)

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9 hours ago, kerdios said:

the graphics are so bad they make my head hurt.

Graphics there is quite good in mine opinion, they basicly same 2d artistwork you get in all dreamforge games from this time. Not as good as westwood or even Raven in places I'd say, but still much better than anything what use just phototextures and raw 3d renders back than.
I think you might have problem with actual game render - I don't know what they used in their engine, some sort of Raycasting or other early 2,5d render, but of cource it has it's limitations and without proper "far shading" effect and lower render resolution it might look as pixelated mess at first time

If you played frist person games from this time a lot - like Thor's Hammer or The Elder Scrolls Arena or maybe original Rise of the Triad and Wolfenstein 3d you'll be perfectly fine with it lol. Well, this trilogy of 2 ravenloft and one forgotten realms free movment games is not something 10/10, but decent plot based SSI RPG as you might expect. But they'll really benefit from more advanced render and resolution. This why at the time 2d with 3d imitation games like Lands of Lore 1 still existed.

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Problem there is "draw distance" most probably for you - place where engine start "distort" cell and floor textures to not render all texture for all location. There nothing really you can do with it - it's way how engine threat "big" locations (in doom and tes arena you had dark or fog when you more far). Looking at your screenshots you may try play with acpect ratio correction and opengldb render, it might make it slightly better

ZZZ.png.e5bceb1e952c8950700683917444d83c.png

However, you may turn off cell and floor texctures in options easely, if it'll help you to make it more "wolfenstein 3d style". With this view you can see easely see points where game change floor texture rendering

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I can see that it may be bad for people but for me this graphics was fine, also in this games if I not crazy there no ranage-attack enemies and all combat is close one (exept occasional fireball from wall or some boss), so it'll not affecting gameplay much, espessialy in smaller dungeons and interiors where you spend most of the game. However yeah, if you want more modern experience with real time free-movment blobber Might and Magic 6-8 with GrayFace patches and hardware acceleration with widescreen patches probably be better start. I playing all this because fan of old CRPGs.

 

Edited by ultrayoba (see edit history)

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btw this is what anvil of dawn looks like
image.thumb.png.5804ee26932026f9512017987cf39c61.png

A lot better don't you think?

I think the two main differences are 1. what you said about the fog in the distance and
2. the fact that ceilings aren't as low - in menzoraban the distance between the floor and the ceiling is so short (because of the hud)  it makes me feel as if I'm walking under a 1.8m ceiling.

Edited by kerdios (see edit history)

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On 12/30/2019 at 2:15 AM, kerdios said:

btw this is what anvil of dawn looks like

 

Back then you had to pay for actual even 2,5d render, original ultima underworld was also in tiny-tiny render window.Many people played doom in much smaller window lol. I can say that last game on engine, Ravenloft: Stone Prophet is a bit better but not really far, however you may try. With Anvil of Dawn I kind of have problem that they really get into 3d-prerender stuff in places - for walls and different details. I appreciate and love look of 2d handrawn art, espessialy when it's good (and Dreamforge have good one for the most part, not greatest but really good) over just pre-renders of photosprites/textures. Veil of Darkness was full handrawn same as Dungeon Hack, 2,5d games had cutscenes in crappy 3d renders but rest of art and textures was handrawn, Anvil of Dawn already used pre-renders in game, and Wh40k Rites of War was in majority 3d pre-renders with strange backgrounds. But well yea, Anvil of Dawn still looks great and there was a point in making 2d first person game over 2,5d one untill 1995-96.

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This has become, probably, my favorite episode of the Game Dungeon. This is my favorite kind of game, my favorite kind of setting, and I love the level of depth and detail that the analysis/review goes into.

 

I grew up playing these kinds of odd PC adventure games, almost never making too much progress because my 11-year-old brain couldn't comprehend the required leaps of puzzle logic. I wonder what opinions are among this group of what it was that led to the Sierra or LucasArts style point-and-clicks continuing forward, while action/adventure/rpg/visual novel hybrids like this one died out. You definitely see a few games after the early 90s that are closer to Veil, but it certainly seems as if the SCUMM interface just sort of set a new standard for adventure games and developers never really looked back.

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