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Which is worse morally, software piracy or physical theft?
Piracy 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Theft 81%  81%  [ 34 ]
They are both equal 14%  14%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 42
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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 3:01 pm 
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Ever since I got Steam, discovered ebay and got my own economy, I've pirated a lot less than I used to.

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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:28 pm 
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I have to agree. Steam is by far the best anti-piracy measure a company has ever taken; its simplicity, the convenience, the sales, is enough to stop even the biggest rum-guzzling pirate from his dastardly plunderin'.

Chuck Norris wrote:
Except his property isn't touched, it is looked at and duplicated. There was no use of his property at all. He still has his property.


I can see what you're saying, but it's flawed. It's true that he still has his property per se, but it was obtained by someone else in a manner that he did not approve. It's still stealing.


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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:41 pm 
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Yeah, steam is a hell of a lot more effective than what Ubisoft did to some of their games, which actually ENCOURAGED piracy haha

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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:57 pm 
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I have to agree. Steam is by far the best anti-piracy measure a company has ever taken

http://www.gog.com


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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:55 am 
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As far as I am aware GOG's services are not nearly as extensive as Steam's are.

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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:12 am 
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Kirkreng wrote:
As far as I am aware GOG's services are not nearly as extensive as Steam's are.


Yeah GOG lets you play your games and do whatever you like with them. And it doesn't force you to use a client.


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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 4:01 am 
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GOG rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:07 am 
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GOG and Stardock actually are the best in the industry at this time.

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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:08 am 
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Axeldeath wrote:
Kirkreng wrote:
As far as I am aware GOG's services are not nearly as extensive as Steam's are.


Yeah GOG lets you play your games and do whatever you like with them. And it doesn't force you to use a client.

But how is that offering a better service as opposed to piracy?

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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:17 am 
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Kirkreng wrote:
Axeldeath wrote:
Kirkreng wrote:
As far as I am aware GOG's services are not nearly as extensive as Steam's are.


Yeah GOG lets you play your games and do whatever you like with them. And it doesn't force you to use a client.

But how is that offering a better service as opposed to piracy?



It gives you the game exactly as you would get it if you pirated it (DRM-free etc.), except

-The game will now work with Windows 7/ Vista/ XP thanks to some coding by the GOG team.
-If it's DOS it'll have a DOSbox wrapper, simplifying the need to know anything about DOSbox.
-Often includes extras such as: Soundtracks, wallpapers, avatars, dev interviews, PDF version of the manual and more.
-Treats their customers with respect.
-Constantly giving away free games, I already have 11 free games from the mere year I've had an account on GOG.
-Mod community support.
-Unlimited downloads at your convenience.
-You own the game, rather than a license.
-GOGmixes, forums and more.

How is making an xFire clone that controls whether or not you can play games a better service than piracy?


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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 9:55 am 
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I agree, I prefer GOG to Steam, not that I dislike Steam or Origin as services or anything, but GOG is probably where I go when I want to get older games legally. I already bought Duke Nukem 3D there and it's definitely the definitive edition of the game, and it only sets you back 6 bucks.

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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:33 am 
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Axeldeath wrote:
It gives you the game exactly as you would get it if you pirated it (DRM-free etc.), except

-The game will now work with Windows 7/ Vista/ XP thanks to some coding by the GOG team.
-If it's DOS it'll have a DOSbox wrapper, simplifying the need to know anything about DOSbox.
-Often includes extras such as: Soundtracks, wallpapers, avatars, dev interviews, PDF version of the manual and more.
-Treats their customers with respect.
-Constantly giving away free games, I already have 11 free games from the mere year I've had an account on GOG.
-Mod community support.
-Unlimited downloads at your convenience.
-You own the game, rather than a license.
-GOGmixes, forums and more.

How is making an xFire clone that controls whether or not you can play games a better service than piracy?

But since it is DRM free you can pirate a GOG version of it and you get exactly the same of what you just mentioned. You cannot use any of Steam's benefits when pirating.
Not that I dislike GOG(In fact it would be the first place to go when I want to buy an old game, I am actually still waiting for them to get System Shock 2 on there), but calling it a better anti-piracy measure than Steam just doesn't work because you get exactly the same benefits from pirating GOG versions as you would from buying them.

Edit: Almost exactly.

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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 10:40 am 
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The difference is that pirates pay for stuff that doesn't have DRM. If you look at the history of piracy, it's all been about DRM and consumer's rights.

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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:06 am 
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Chuck Norris wrote:
The difference is that pirates pay for stuff that doesn't have DRM. If you look at the history of piracy, it's all been about DRM and consumer's rights.


Completely agree.

Also, copying is not stealing - it's an infringement of the right to control copying. Not more not less. Whether the infringement has caused economic loss or not is a different matter and is specific to circumstances. It can be argued that some infringements may actually result in the gain for the rights holder (I personally know of a few examples where it is most definitely the case).

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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:15 pm 
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Chuck Norris wrote:
The difference is that pirates pay for stuff that doesn't have DRM. If you look at the history of piracy, it's all been about DRM and consumer's rights.

No, no it's not. I'm sorry, but not everyone is a "white hat pirate"(it's what I've dubbed pirates that pirate with reasons I find acceptable, for example because it is otherwise not available where you live or it costs a unreasonable amount like it seems to do in Australia). Most pirates really just pirate because they can't or don't want to pay money for the product.

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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Quote:
they can't or don't want to pay money for the product.


Well, in that case there is no loss to the rights holder anyway, right? But at least there is a prospect that the "pirate" may pay for it eventually.

If you won't let them have a free copy the chances are they will never buy it from you anyway. You may argue that if no free copies are available they will actually be forced to buy it, but IP is not bread, it's not essential to life. I think, on balance, if "piracy" could be stopped completely tomorrow the sales would fall rather than go up.

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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:07 pm 
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Why would they fall?
And yes people will pirate it simply because they can get it for free and would have otherwise payed for it, simply because they can get the same or a better experience for free. And then there are also those people who if piracy didn't exist buy games but somehow take pride in getting it illegally.

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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:55 pm 
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Quote:
But since it is DRM free you can pirate a GOG version of it and you get exactly the same of what you just mentioned. You cannot use any of Steam's benefits when pirating.
Not that I dislike GOG(In fact it would be the first place to go when I want to buy an old game, I am actually still waiting for them to get System Shock 2 on there), but calling it a better anti-piracy measure than Steam just doesn't work because you get exactly the same benefits from pirating GOG versions as you would from buying them.


Step 1: Pirate game
Step 2: Install Xfire


Your game is now better than a Steam copy.

Quote:
I am actually still waiting for them to get System Shock 2 on there


Not happening, the rights for that game are controlled by way too many groups.


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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 3:33 am 
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Kirkreng wrote:
Why would they fall?


Simply because the level of awareness will fall. Take music, people all over the net voluntarily promote artists and songs they like, including on this site, yet all of it is "piracy" i.e. unauthorised copying and linking (according to the industry linking to something is being ancillary to copying is just as heinous a crime).

I have spent $$$ buying stuff of which I found out watching machinimas set to "pirated" music. Not least by Zach Scott and Robert Stoneman.

Quote:
And yes people will pirate it simply because they can get it for free and would have otherwise payed for it, simply because they can get the same or a better experience for free. And then there are also those people who if piracy didn't exist buy games but somehow take pride in getting it illegally.


Yes, but that's the price of broad coverage. You either can have very limited and targeted awareness, which converts to a high percentage of sales or you can have a very broad awareness but with higher spillage. You can't have both high awareness and high conversion rate. You have no right to expect both.

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 Post subject: Re: Software Piracy: The Morality
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 9:47 am 
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I don't really like piracy and I try to buy games when I can... but in no way I feel bad for not paying a couple of bucks to huge corporations with profits in millions or billions of dollars just because they are stuck in 20th century and can't use internet properly to deliver a medium for a reasonable price.

Some time ago I read about a CEO of EA (or some other game corporation) that he would be glad if he could get players to pay 1 dollar everytime they run out of ammo in any game. No, I don't really feel guilty when I download stuff. We are nothing more than walking wallets for them... and they try to squeeze as much money from us as possible.

Though most of the time I will buy the game when I like it... especially if the price isn't over the roof. Most of the games I really played were legal (some of them in due time).

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