Recent CERN neutrino experiment

[alphabetagamma]

For those of you that didn't hear, a recent experiment done by OPERA and CERN may have detected a neutrino traveling faster than light in a vacuum. The data has yet to be fully scrutinized, but this still presents an interesting problem for special relativity. I'm afraid I'm hoping against Einstein in this case, I've never really liked the idea of a "cosmic speed limit" for reasons of both wanting to go to other planets without all that waiting and not seeing a real reason for one to exist. Anyways, what's your opinion?

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/particles-faster-than-light-revolution-or-mistake/2011/09/23/gIQArpJzqK_story.html

 

http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2011/PR19.11E.html

[Kyon]

I saw this and thought, "Damnit Nigel, what did you do now."

 

 

Obviously you don't know who Nigel is so let me enlighten you. Nigel is a genius that goes to my school that just happened to spend the summer at CERN laboratories.

[Blue]

Just like anaylisis of the theoretical planet Tyche and local star Nemesis (as well as the observations of New Horizons), we'll just have to wait and see what sort of surprises today's new fangled sciences bring us.

[Eedo Baba]

I hope this somehow leads to awesome future stuff. We've been waiting way too long for that stuff. Antigravity, light speed space rockets, hoverboards...

[Blue]

Super hover boards.

[alphabetagamma]

I hope this somehow leads to awesome future stuff. We've been waiting way too long for that stuff. Antigravity, light speed space rockets, hoverboards...

I'm not sure how harnessing dark energy is the same as FTL travel. Except they're both cool.

[Collective Foal]

Apparently, it seems that if a neutrino is to go faster than the speed of light, It has to always be faster than the speed of light. It can't accelerate through the "light barrier." So, although something can go faster than light, the idea of a physical speed limit still exists as according to this, we wouldn't be able to go faster than light.

[Vapymid]

I'll wait until this has been properly peer reviewed and independently confirmed before getting overly excited about it...

 

Regards

[Doom Shepherd]

Speaking of Dark Energy...

 

It may all be an illusion

[alphabetagamma]

Apparently, it seems that if a neutrino is to go faster than the speed of light, It has to always be faster than the speed of light. It can't accelerate through the "light barrier." So, although something can go faster than light, the idea of a physical speed limit still exists as according to this, we wouldn't be able to go faster than light.

The reason this result could be so important is, if it holds up to criticism, that the previously percieved light barrier could be breakable or simply non-exsistant for that matter.

[Doom Shepherd]

It might also mean that if we can find a way to manipulate Neutrinos, there might be a way to communicate at FTL speeds, which at the very least would make things like interplanetary and even interstellar probes much more efficient.

 

Say we sent a probe to Alpha Centauri. While it still might take, say, 43 years to get there (at .1 c), if communication time with the probe were reduced from 4.3 years between transmission and reception to something much smaller, It would greatly improve the odds of mission success, giving scientists and engineers a chance to react to problems and changes much faster than they otherwise could.

 

And who knows... maybe that's what the Galactic Alliance is waiting for us to figure out.

 

In fact, I remember a SF story where the (accidental) discovery of the Interstellar FTL Mail system was the condition for being considered "ready" to join the rest of the galaxy.

[Eedo Baba]

Faster than light circuitry using neutrinos might also enable us to create extremely efficient computers many thousands of times more powerful than present day chips.

[alphabetagamma]

Faster than light circuitry using neutrinos might also enable us to create extremely efficient computers many thousands of times more powerful than present day chips.

Even communication would be difficult with neutrinos, but trying to make a neutrino computer would be nearly impossible considering how little they interact with other matter. Making a quantum computer using charged particles would be much more practical.

[Collective Foal]

It would actually take hundreds of years for that rocket to reach Alpha Centauri because of the spac time shift. From the sattelites perspective, it's clock ran up 43 years, but for humans, we're waiting 430 years for it. Also, something I've always been fuzzy on. Does "the speed of light" mean the speed of light in a vacuum? Because when being run through series of mirrors and gaseous mists, the speed of an electron can be slowed to a crawl, causing photons to be given off at a snail's pace. I don't believe in a light barrier to be honest with you, as that speed is highly variable. All you have to do is excite a particle enough so that it travels faster and faster, though at that point it would probably be converted to a plasma. My idea of light travel is much like a teleporter. You have two diodes. One has a high positive charge and the other has a high negative charge. You then excite particles to become a plasma. Plasmas only contain protons, so they have a high positive charge. They would be pushed from the positively charged diode and pulled to the negatively charged diode at incredibly high speeds. You then restore electrons to the plasma, Putting it back to it's original form. This would also serve as a great filter, as different elements would reach the diode at different times depending on how many protons they contain. Radium would travel much faster than Hydrogen, for example. But those are just my thoughts...

[Vapymid]

It would actually take hundreds of years for that rocket to reach Alpha Centauri because of the spac time shift. From the sattelites perspective, it's clock ran up 43 years, but for humans, we're waiting 430 years for it.

 

You are slightly mixed up on relativistic time dilation. The rocket traveling @0.1c will reach Alpha Centauri in about 43 years for an observer on Earth. For the crew on the rocket itself the time will run slower and the trip will feel shorter for them (but @0.1c the difference will be negligible, about 0.5%, if I remember correctly).

 

Does "the speed of light" mean the speed of light in a vacuum?

 

Yes.

 

All you have to do is excite a particle enough so that it travels faster and faster, though at that point it would probably be converted to a plasma.

 

Whether plasma or not (i.e. a charged particle or an atom) anything that has mass cannot travel faster than c, according to special relativity, and no known "conventional" way can even theoretically change that.

 

If the new discovery means a new physics (i.e. it's not just a mistake in measurement) - then who knows?

 

They would be pushed from the positively charged diode and pulled to the negatively charged diode at incredibly high speeds.

 

But not at speeds higher than c (if the special relativity holds).

 

Regards

[Collective Foal]

Gotcha there. Never was good with understanding the spacetime stuff. I still don't understand why that works, but I'll figure it out eventually.

 

I know that Einstein was all like, nothing can go faster than c, but I fail to agree. For now you're absolutely correct, but in my mind, as there is a limitless amount of energy in the universe, particles can be accelerated to limitless speeds, just convert all the potential energy into kinetic energy and you're moving pretty damn fast.

[Doom Shepherd]

But, as you put more energy into something (accelerating it), it gains mass because it has more (kinetic) energy.

 

At light speed, mass becomes infinite. The object you accellerated usually collapses into a black hole some time before that. At infinite mass, you'd re-collapse the universe.

[Collective Foal]

Hmmm... The point you make is logical. I didn't think about that. A black hole, though. Wouldn't that be a particle accelerated to light speed, as it's so strong that light can't escape it???

[alphabetagamma]

Hmmm... The point you make is logical. I didn't think about that. A black hole, though. Wouldn't that be a particle accelerated to light speed, as it's so strong that light can't escape it???

Black holes have an extremely high density and mass yes, but not infinite. An body of infinite mass would colapse the universe as Doom Shepherd said, not just create a high gravity field. On a side note, black holes are not inescapable. Black holes, at least theoretically, release thermal radiation aka Hawking radiation. So not impossible to escape as long as you don't mind being converted into energy first.

[Michael Archer]