Does God exist? (your opinion anyways.)

[Doom Shepherd]

There's actually evidence to support the idea that the Old Testament was commissioned by the Persians as a book of moral law. I feel no reason to follow the teachings of Persian rulers 3000 years after the fact.

What evidence do you know of that actually supports this? I'm actually really curious to know.

I don't follow the old testament. I doubt few Christians do. We follow the new testament.

 

Which is like saying you believe that "The Return of the King" is great, but "The Fellowship of the Ring" has no relevance to it. (And in the case of the writings of Paul, that some internet Tolkien fanfic is as good as the original Trilogy.)

[Eedo Baba]

There's actually evidence to support the idea that the Old Testament was commissioned by the Persians as a book of moral law. I feel no reason to follow the teachings of Persian rulers 3000 years after the fact.

What evidence do you know of that actually supports this? I'm actually really curious to know.

 

Was doing some research a while ago on the Old Testament, interested to find out when it was actually written. Turns out best estimates say all the parts of the Torah were slowly compiled from around 1000 BCE to 500 BCE. The first part (including the first parts of the torah, like genesis) is believed by some scholars to have been commissioned by Persian kings to give theological justification for the king's actions.

 

Still, it's a field that lacks a lot of hard evidence. All of this was happening in a time and place when there were little to no historical records.

[Alyxx Thorne]

Which is like saying you believe that "The Return of the King" is great, but "The Fellowship of the Ring" has no relevance to it.

Are you honestly comparing the bible to Lord of the Rings? I didn't say the new testament has no relevance to the old testament, just that most Christians consider the new testament to have greater importance due to the story of Jesus and how he died for our sins, basically making the old testament mostly irrelevant, because God in the new testament has developed a greater understanding of humans than he has in the old testament. It's the new testament that portrays God as forgiving and loving as opposed to angry like he was in the old testament. The new testament shows a new side to God where he connected with his creations in a way he never did in the old testament.

 

But does any of this have anything to do with God's existence or your own beliefs? Are you really so disrespectful of people like me who have faith in God that you HAVE to disprove his existence or you HAVE to disprove the bible's legitimacy?

 

I don't care about the bible that much, because the bible is a book of stories meant as a guide. It's not to be taken literally. I don't see why it always has to be the basis of religious discussions when religion is something up to each to interpret. And besides, when taking anything in the bible out of context you can basically say anything and claim that God says it. You have to read it as a whole.

 

But yeah, this is a question whether God exists, how you see God, not whether the Bible was written by persians or not.

 

Either stay on topic or stop trying to disprove something that is based on faith.

[Eedo Baba]

But does any of this have anything to do with God's existence or your own beliefs? Are you really so disrespectful of people like me who have faith in God that you HAVE to disprove his existence or you HAVE to disprove the bible's legitimacy?

 

Gods and religion generally don't need to be disproved, because the people involved generally think that their belief in god is a result of righteous faith.

I feel personally compelled to reject something like faith. It's a romantic notion that has no place in a person's world view. It's based entirely on personal bias and cultural tradition, and should simply be disregarded when looking for the truth.

That's my opinion.

[Alyxx Thorne]

But does any of this have anything to do with God's existence or your own beliefs? Are you really so disrespectful of people like me who have faith in God that you HAVE to disprove his existence or you HAVE to disprove the bible's legitimacy?

 

Gods and religion generally don't need to be disproved, because the people involved generally think that their belief in god is a result of righteous faith.

I feel personally compelled to reject something like faith. It's a romantic notion that has no place in a person's world view. It's based entirely on personal bias and cultural tradition, and should simply be disregarded when looking for the truth.

That's my opinion.

Then how do you explain DNA codes? How do you explain how the world started? How do you explain how the trees filter oxygen for us to breathe? How do you explain why the earth has such good conditions? How do you explain life itself and the energy flowing through us that enables us to have these thoughts at all?

 

The more we find out about the Earth and life itself, the more I find reasons to believe there must be a God. It might be a romantic notion, but to me it's reality. For me, the proof of God's existence is everywhere.

 

I am not convinced that God exists because the bible says so, I am convinced because to me, he has to exist. I can't imagine a world without God, and I don't understand why people feel the need to claim he doesn't exist. I don't have to rely on the bible to force my views down people's throats, because to me, the world itself is proof of God's existence. But yeah, whatever you choose to believe is up to you, and I respect that, as long as you respect that I have a need to believe in God and I don't see it as wrong to do so. I see it as a natural part of the human psyche.

 

People have the right to make up their own mind and I think that should go both ways.

[Eedo Baba]

Then how do you explain DNA codes?

 

DNA as a molecular structure started as a simple collection of atoms which was able to create copies of itself. These copies, like all DNA afterwards, were capable of random mutation. These mutations were extremely basic, because the DNA molecule at the time was very small and simplistic. Over an extremely long time, natural selection in these copies led to more efficient DNA molecules, incorporating more elements from the environment. Some DNA molecules eventually incorporated a simple cellular structure. At the same time, many different lines of this evolution were occurring. Things like mitochondria were mutating the ability to power themselves using chemical energy. Many of these lines of evolution would eventually come together in a complex system that would evolve into complex single celled organisms.

 

How do you explain how the world started?

 

By "world", I assume you mean the Earth. The Earth was formed from the collection of dust orbiting the sun soon after it's formation. The dust coalesced into particles larger and larger over time, eventually gravitating together to form planets. Earth was one of these planets.

 

How do you explain how the trees filter oxygen for us to breathe?

 

Trees filter carbon dioxide into oxygen using water, nutrients, and sunlight. This feature evolved from rogue chloroplasts which evolved in the oceans of primordial Earth.

 

How do you explain why the earth has such good conditions?

 

The Earth has good conditions for the life that lives on it because we are adapted to the Earth. Life on Earth evolved under the Earth's own conditions. Forms of life that could not survive died out. Forms of life with beneficial mutations managed to survive and prosper. Over billions of years, these mutations led to creatures very well adapted to make use of the environment, and be protected from it's dangers.

 

How do you explain life itself and the energy flowing through us that enables us to have these thoughts at all?

 

Organisms employ many different types of energy to operate. The human body employs chemical energy from nutrients to fuel reactions in the body's cells. Some of this energy is used in the brain and nervous system, where electrical and chemical energy is used to transmit information through neurons. Complex forms of neurons allow calculations and connections to be performed. These calculations and connections form the consciousness.

[Alyxx Thorne]

But why? Can you explain to me why? Not how, I'm not interested in how. That's basically what you've explained, how. For me, there has to be a reason behind it, there has to be something that has started these processes.

 

I mean, evolution is fine and dandy and all, but it's not exactly very philosophically satisfying.

[Pinkie Pie]

 

By "world", I assume you mean the Earth. The Earth was formed from the collection of dust orbiting the sun soon after it's formation. The dust coalesced into particles larger and larger over time, eventually gravitating together to form planets. Earth was one of these planets.

 

Which is completely and utterly a theory.

[Alyxx Thorne]

That's the thing, God is part of philosophy, not science. God is why, not how.

[Eedo Baba]

But why? Can you explain to me why? Not how, I'm not interested in how. That's basically what you've explained, how. For me, there has to be a reason behind it, there has to be something that has started these processes.

 

There does not need to be a reason. You're looking at the universe from the perspective of the "creator and created", the cause and effect, as you know it in everyday life. This perspective is a human invention and doesn't apply to the origin of the universe.

 

I mean, evolution is fine and dandy and all, but it's not exactly very philosophically satisfying.

 

No, it's not. It doesn't need to be. It's just a law of nature. If you wish to simply believe anything you want with disregard to the facts, because you find it philosophically pleasing, then even science cannot help you.

[Alyxx Thorne]

Well excuse me for being human instead of seeing the world through the eyes of a machine. And I know science is not philosophically pleasing, that's my whole point. I'm not looking to science for these answers.

[Pinkie Pie]

This is getting to be a little ridiculous. Are you really expressing your opinion, or are you trying to convince her her entire religion is a sham? That's just what I'm getting from this.

[Eedo Baba]

This is getting to be a little ridiculous. Are you really expressing your opinion, or are you trying to convince her her entire religion is a sham? That's just what I'm getting from this.

 

Let's say I'm stating my opinion that her entire religion is a sham. Good compromise.

 

Seriously though, I'm mostly just answering questions with my own objective answer. Otherwise, she occasionally says things that I find blatantly objectionable, and have to respond to. I hold no ill will, it's simply a conversation.

 

 

Well excuse me for being human instead of seeing the world through the eyes of a machine. And I know science is not philosophically pleasing, that's my whole point. I'm not looking to science for these answers.

 

I simply believe that seeing things as they truly are requires the removal of personal bias. If that means acting like a machine, then that's what it means.

[Scorpia]

stating your opinion by using her beliefs as a basis to tear them down...

 

"You don't seem to have any reason to think these things, which is why I can't take your beliefs seriously. If your only reason is faith, then I advise you to take a close look at what faith is, and weigh that information with the knowledge that your own mind is not infallible."

 

if it were just you stating your opinion then i wouldn't be putting my two cents in, but it seems like you have a major problem with Alyxx believing these things. if Alyxx wants answers to things why reject them? believing there's a reason for everything is the thing that can inspire one to go to work in the morning. why would you want to take that away from anyone?

[Alyxx Thorne]

I think we both are very strongly convinced either way so I feel there's no need for me to continue writing here. I have stated my belief in God.

[Eedo Baba]

if it were just you stating your opinion then i wouldn't be putting my two cents in, but it seems like you have a major problem with Alyxx believing these things. if Alyxx wants answers to things why reject them? believing there's a reason for everything is the thing that can inspire one to go to work in the morning. why would you want to take that away from anyone?

 

Because it's fraudulent. Understanding the world for the way it really is can be very satisfying. It saddens me to see someone reject the real world like that, bargaining enlightenment for blissful ignorance. I mean no offense in my arguments, I simply wish to get across my own perspective. Sometimes it takes more than passive explanation to do so.

[Scorpia]

i think you've effectively accomplished that. but with all due respect what if i just outright told you that your beliefs were outright wrong and you were, for want of a better word, an idiot for believing so?

[Eedo Baba]

i think you've effectively accomplished that. but with all due respect what if i just outright told you that your beliefs were outright wrong and you were, for want of a better word, an idiot for believing so?

 

I'd want to know what your own beliefs are that somehow trump mine. I wouldn't be offended, if that's what you mean. My only firm belief is in the scientifically proven. I'm confident enough in that belief to not be offended by being called an idiot.

If you tend to be offended for the sake of your beliefs, you may want to consider their tenuous nature.

[Scorpia]

alright fair enough, to each his own. i just think that ripping apart someone's beliefs when it's unnecessary is unneeded.

[Eedo Baba]

alright fair enough, to each his own. i just think that ripping apart someone's beliefs when it's unnecessary is unneeded.

 

I'd say that communal criticism is necessary to come to an informed conclusion. But sure, I'll concede the argument is over.