Orlando Shooting

[GolfClubNinja]

So, if any of you don't know, a gay bar/nightclub called the pulse was subject to a mass shooting, ending with 50 dead and about 53 more wounded, the deadliest shooting since 2007.

 

The perpetrator, Omar Mateen, went in with an assault rifle and a pistol, which I have heard have been legally or illegally bought, I have heard both claimed. He apparently called 911 before and pledged his allegiance to ISIS. He was on "the radar", but has no known ties to ISIS before hand. Of course, ISIS has praised the attack and has claimed responsibility.

 

I don't have much to say on this at the moment, but it may be a topic others may want to talk about. I just don't want this to be focused on guns but on extremism, and hopefully let some people who still believe Islam as a religion of peace to learn more on their attitudes towards gays and women in their culture, both extremist and when dominant in a society.

[GolfClubNinja]

Just a little update. The guns where bought legally a week beforehand, for anyone who is interested in the gun rights topic. He was known to the authorities as a possible threat since 2013, and was last looked into in 2014. He had an ar-15 and an unspecified pistol, along with extra rounds. The bomb squad made a controlled explosion, so it was possible that a bomb was there.

 

He was dispatched rather quickly by SWAT, with the only police causality being an injury to one who was shot in the head, but had his helmet stop it from killing him. He took hostages and had a standoff for about 2 hours.

[Vapymid]

This has very little to do with a particular religion... He might have easily been some right-winger... Like in the attack on a gay pub in London a couple of decade ago... He was a moron above all - any religious or idiological aspect is just incidental.

 

But giving weapons to morons susceptible to extremist propaganda - no matter which kind - is not a good idea.

 

Regards

[Heliocentrical]

To fucking hell with the Left and the Right for using these innocent victims as tools for their agendas. For them these shooting victims are a means to an end and nothing more. This happens every time there's a shooting and I find it increasingly hard to stomach what these political vultures are doing. In this day and age there is no respect offered to those who lost their lives. The victims deserved better than this.

[BTGBullseye]

To fucking hell with the Left and the Right for using these innocent victims as tools for their agendas. For them these shooting victims are a means to an end and nothing more. This happens every time there's a shooting and I find it increasingly hard to stomach what these political vultures are doing. In this day and age there is no respect offered to those who lost their lives. The victims deserved better than this.

+1

[Descriptor]

So, if any of you don't know, a gay bar/nightclub called the pulse was subject to a mass shooting, ending with 50 dead and about 53 more wounded, the deadliest shooting since 2007.

 

The perpetrator, Omar Mateen, went in with an assault rifle and a pistol, which I have heard have been legally or illegally bought, I have heard both claimed. He apparently called 911 before and pledged his allegiance to ISIS. He was on "the radar", but has no known ties to ISIS before hand. Of course, ISIS has praised the attack and has claimed responsibility.

 

I don't have much to say on this at the moment, but it may be a topic others may want to talk about. I just don't want this to be focused on guns but on extremism, and hopefully let some people who still believe Islam as a religion of peace to learn more on their attitudes towards gays and women in their culture, both extremist and when dominant in a society.

 

Oh, for goodness sakes, ISIS has about as much to do with Islam as the West Burrough Baptist Church has with Christianity. Granted, the Islamic faith has been tragically prone to radicalization as of late, but much of that is due to instability in the Middle East, as well as the rise of fundamentalism in the last few decades. Besides, blaming large groups of people on this won't fix anything, just make more extreemists who feel like they're being ganged up on.

 

Besides, the weirdest thing about this whole thing is that apparently the perpetrator was a regular at the club, so I can't imagine he was especially religious.

[Selfsurprise]

To fucking hell with the Left and the Right for using these innocent victims as tools for their agendas. For them these shooting victims are a means to an end and nothing more. This happens every time there's a shooting and I find it increasingly hard to stomach what these political vultures are doing. In this day and age there is no respect offered to those who lost their lives. The victims deserved better than this.

+1

Make that a +2 BTG.

 

Trump didn't waste any time leaping on this to further his black and white narratives for the kind of people that the lowest common denominator regard as being the lowest common denominator. The man's cynical political careering is like the best parody of a statesmen I've ever seen, except he is a living, breathing, actual person. How long will it take America to do something about its gun laws? Are we talking years? Decades? A few more centuries of wilful denial and flimsy excuses of a distressing tendency towards advocacy for gun access.

[Heliocentrical]

Make that a +2 BTG.

 

How long will it take America to do something about its gun laws? Are we talking years? Decades? A few more centuries of wilful denial and flimsy excuses of a distressing tendency towards advocacy for gun access.

No offense Selfsurprise but I think you may have contradicted yourself. The Left is using the Orlando Shooting as a platform for Gun Control. Same goes for the Right, just replace guns with Muslims. Both instances are using the Orlando Shooting victims as props for their propaganda, are knee jerk reactions to fear and I don't think for a second that either one of them is correct.

 

As a US citizen I think there's a definite concern for what sort of effect Gun Control may have here if it gets implemented. Take a look at The War on Drugs and see how well the US did in actually banning drugs. By that I mean not at all. The War on drugs essentially added fuel to the fire that was an illegal market and I see no difference with Gun Control. Sure you start off with a basic background check which on it's own I have no issue with since guns are still available to the vast majority of the public. But what if it doesn't stop the shootings in the US? Well then it may be used as an excuse to implement more restrictions until the public no longer has access to guns. Criminals won't just stop because they no longer have access to guns legally. All they have to do is illegally smuggle some guns because they're outside of the law. Now the public is even more at risk as result, not less.

[K4_Kydure]

He might have easily been some right-winger...

Number 9. http://www.ijreview.com/2016/06/627391-x-things-we-know-about-the-orlando-nightclub-shooter-who-killed-20-in-outbreak-of-mass-murder/

 

That's some nice generalization you have there.

[Vapymid]

Ah, no... no generalisation - just by way of example. Could have used any ideology as an excuse to justify his own inability to understand the complexity of the world...

 

@Heliocentrical - I don't want to slide into discussion of gun control here as there is a thread for that, but... There is the simple fact that in none of the mass shootings in the history of the US ever did any lawfully arms-bearing citizen manage to prevent or stop the incident or even appear on the scene in time to influence the outcome.

 

So, the idea that universal possession of firearms by the public somehow makes the society safer from such an attack is a delusion.

 

On the other hand - it is also clear that in the developed coutries with strict gun controls the rates of gun crime are an order of magnitude lower than in the US.

 

I am not saying that declaring gun ownership illegal overnight is a solution - if only because it is simply unenforceable, given the amount of firearms in circulation. It is a matter of common sense, though, to make the barriers for lawful possession of offensive weapons as high as to prevent at least 80% of the population from obtaning one.

 

Regards

[Heliocentrical]

On the other hand - it is also clear that in the developed coutries with strict gun controls the rates of gun crime are an order of magnitude lower than in the US.

I Don't believe there is any direct correlation between strict gun controls and lower rates of crime. Look at South America, the countries in South America that have strict gun controls hasn't stopped that general area from housing one of the largest cesspools of crime and numerous cartels.

[Vapymid]

South America is a special case. The criminality there is institutional and is supported by the US, in particular, and the rest of the "first" world countries' drugs policies. Any "strictness" in any law is fictional there... Better look at Western Europe for an example...

 

Regards

[Heliocentrical]

South America is a special case. The criminality there is institutional and is supported by the US, in particular, and the rest of the "first" world countries' drugs policies. Any "strictness" in any law is fictional there... Better look at Western Europe for an example...

 

Regards

Then I would argue that the US doesn't have the capacity of being strict. Look at Prohibition and the War on Drugs. Both instances where the US tried to ban something and inadvertently created an illegal market that was more lucrative than the previously legal market because of it's illegal status. It's psychologically enticing to do something illegal and possibly get away with it. If 80% of the US population were unable to obtain firearms legally then there would inevitably be a loophole that would grant them that access again and the demand for firearms would be much higher than it would have been otherwise.

[BTGBullseye]

There is the simple fact that in none of the mass shootings in the history of the US ever did any lawfully arms-bearing citizen manage to prevent or stop the incident or even appear on the scene in time to influence the outcome.

And almost all of them have taken place in gun free zones, including this one.

[Vapymid]

Hehe, but they are gun-free because otherwise you will have hundreds of drunk, excited and emotional people with guns pent up in one place. It's a recipe for disaster in the best of times

 

Regards

[Fric]

So, if any of you don't know, a gay bar/nightclub called the pulse was subject to a mass shooting, ending with 50 dead and about 53 more wounded, the deadliest shooting since 2007.

 

The perpetrator, Omar Mateen, went in with an assault rifle and a pistol, which I have heard have been legally or illegally bought, I have heard both claimed. He apparently called 911 before and pledged his allegiance to ISIS. He was on "the radar", but has no known ties to ISIS before hand. Of course, ISIS has praised the attack and has claimed responsibility.

 

I don't have much to say on this at the moment, but it may be a topic others may want to talk about. I just don't want this to be focused on guns but on extremism, and hopefully let some people who still believe Islam as a religion of peace to learn more on their attitudes towards gays and women in their culture, both extremist and when dominant in a society.

 

Oh, for goodness sakes, ISIS has about as much to do with Islam as the West Burrough Baptist Church has with Christianity. Granted, the Islamic faith has been tragically prone to radicalization as of late, but much of that is due to instability in the Middle East, as well as the rise of fundamentalism in the last few decades. Besides, blaming large groups of people on this won't fix anything, just make more extreemists who feel like they're being ganged up on.

 

Besides, the weirdest thing about this whole thing is that apparently the perpetrator was a regular at the club, so I can't imagine he was especially religious.

 

 

ISIS is directly linked with Islam actually. People just say - no, they are not Muslims etc. But they actually are, its a problem inside Islam, but no one wants to admit it and do something about it. Its always easier to say - its not our fault, so we won't do anything. Where are those extremists in Europe coming from? From Muslim communities quite often, people live with them next door, there are radical elements in some of the local religious sites as well etc.

 

Police, intelligence agencies etc won't eradicate the problem, it is only possible by the Muslim community themselves. Unless that changes - sadly there will be more attacks in the future - police and other agencies won't get them 100% before they do it. Even if 1/1000 plot succeeds, it will happen.

[Reverend_UshankaCat_]

Bloody muslims, right? All a bunch of racists.

We should eradicate them all so they can't murder any more people.

 

And since ISIS appears to be mostly killing muslims, maybe we should support them more.

[Daseril]

Honestly I kind of feel disconnected from this, despite living only living a state away. Maybe this is kinda horrible to say, but I just don't get the fuss over all of this. I guess I'm either desensitized from it happening so often these days, or just don't feel like it could happen to me. I feel like this situation doesn't affect me. You know what does affect me though? When I drive to and from work there is a sign that lists the number of car related deaths that have occurred in my state so far this year. So far its up to 620. It's basically averaged a hundred deaths each month. I have to drive a lot and have had my share of close calls, and I live in higher population area, which means higher chance of getting in an accident. When I look at this in light of the bigger picture I don't see the point in getting caught up in feeling sad or angry about what happened. Bad things happen and all you really can do is move on and try to live your life. because if you hold onto those feelings of hate or sadness, it'll consume you, and you'll never move beyond it, you'll become someone haunted by the past instead of living for the future. I don't know, maybe I'm just rambling, but that's how I feel on the issue.

[GolfClubNinja]

Bloody muslims, right? All a bunch of racists.

We should eradicate them all so they can't murder any more people.

 

And since ISIS appears to be mostly killing muslims, maybe we should support them more.

 

First of all, there are two separate branches that hate each other, most wars between these countries are fueled by Sunni v.s. Shiite conflict. Secondly, they would beleive those who they did kill to not be true followers as they are both not committing to holy war and are most likely in opposition of Isis, which they would think would be in opposition to God.

 

Most importantly, the goal was to strike terror. Just because Muslims are there targets does not mean they are anti-Muslim, nor does it detract from the fact that they are following the ideas of their holy book to the letter. Is it a strict interpretation, yes, but if anything, it makes them even more devout followers according to their own scripture and beliefs

[Reverend_UshankaCat_]

So what you're saying is that the Muslims they kill, the vast majority of Muslims, would rather die than fight for ISIS?

And ISIS wants to terrorise them in the same way they terrorise the Western world?