DRUGS: Use, abuse, information, disinformation and the law.

[Luis]

So, children are regularly being prescribed meth for attention disorders, illegal recreational drugs have (except some cases) way less side-effects and harms (we're talking about things that have been properly researched here) than their legal counterparts and thousands of millions of dollars are being wasted to keep those things like that.

 

Lately, western society has become more and more open and tolerant towards cannabis use, countries like Uruguay and the Netherlands allow recreational use of Mary Jane and states like Colorado and Washington have made the same thing. With this, research involving the interaction between cannabis and the human body has grow and we're slowly becoming aware that this little plant can do more good than harm so...

 

Do you think this should be the case for other drugs?

 

This topic is for general drug discussion, we may float from one subject to the other after some posts.(:

[Angel Blood]

Just legalise absolutely everything and let natural selection take its course. Sounds like a good plan to me.

[BTGBullseye]

Just legalise absolutely everything and let natural selection take its course. Sounds like a good plan to me.

In many respects I would agree, but in others I thoroughly disagree...

 

Many recreational drugs are addictive physically, meaning they cause your body to require the drug to continue to function properly, and those should always be banned. The ones that do not do this should be allowed, though with some regulation. (people shouldn't be allowed to give their 3 year old marijuana nuggets, etc.)

[Luis]

Just legalise absolutely everything and let natural selection take its course. Sounds like a good plan to me.

In many respects I would agree, but in others I thoroughly disagree...

 

Many recreational drugs are addictive physically, meaning they cause your body to require the drug to continue to function properly, and those should always be banned. The ones that do not do this should be allowed, though with some regulation. (people shouldn't be allowed to give their 3 year old marijuana nuggets, etc.)

 

I don't know.. physical addiction can vary wildly from one drug to the other. People can get minor headaches, bad mood and others from caffeine withdrawal as well as nicotine and they're both legal. (nicotine addiction is considered to be as bad and hard to quit as heroin). I'd like restrictions to be based on how much harm a drug can physically/mentally damage you. Even if studies point that LSD is non-toxic and practically harmless physically at the recreational doses (ranging from 85µg to 600-800µg), it can really screw with your mind if you're not prepared for it. I'd like it to be regulated in some way so you can't drop some acid just by being overage. I don't know how a psychological test would work (kind of like the one used for gun control, but better).

 

Much worse stuff like the experimental crap (Spice products, Krokodil, some Phenethylamines.. ) should be banned. What I'd like is overall drug policies based on science and experiences rather than Nixon's bullshit and the Reefer Madness. (For example, Cannabis is confirmed to affect your mental performance if used HEAVILY before the brain is properly developed (18-20 years) so it should be banned for underage use).

[Vapymid]

For me, drugs are something stupid, unnecessary and idiotic that one just should not do in their lives...

 

Alcohol and tobacco not included. I know, people on both sides of the argument like to lump them together with drugs (either "Alcohol is a drug, just like cocaine, yet it is allowed, so cocaine should be too" or "Alcohol is a drug, just like cocaine, yet cocaine is banned, so should be the alcohol") but I disagree - both alcohol products and tobacco have their primary function of being consumed for their taste, rather than their effect.

 

Having said that, I believe that banning the drugs is the main factor that supports and finances the illicit drug industry because, without the illegality, there would be no economic base for drug cartels, opium farms etc etc. These drags can be mass produced dirt-cheaply and the only thing that makes them expensive is the risk premium for illegality.

 

So, no, I don't think drugs are a good idea and, yes, I think they should be legalised. Consider me inconsistent but that's that

 

Regards

[BTGBullseye]

both alcohol products and tobacco have their primary function of being consumed for their taste, rather than their effect.

You are so naive...

[Vapymid]

Perhaps... or, am I?

 

Just because a percentage of humans is confused and believes that the main reason for drinking alcohol is to get plastered does not mean that they are the ones who are right.

 

I admit, maybe "taste" was too narrow a definition and "culinary" is a better description, as it includes direct consumption, use as an ingredient, flavouring or a preservative etc.

 

Regards

[Luis]

both alcohol products and tobacco have their primary function of being consumed for their taste, rather than their effect.

You are so naive...

I can definetely see that with tobacco and maybe even cannabis, it's flavor when smoked can vary wildly from one strain to the other, or depending on how itLs been treated. But alcohol? If we exclude beer and wine,I don't think that's the case. I've never seen someone try 7 kinds of vodka (and by the time they would be done, theyLd be pretty hammered)

 

I don't see drugs as something idiotic. I can pretty much reuse your main reason for consuming argument. Most people do drugs to just get high, but there's so much more you can do,,, Consciousness expanding, introspective analysis with a different state of consciousness, the whole ''altered state of consciousness'' goes way beyond what normal perception can give you (or ''traditional'' psychoactives like tobacco or alcohol).

 

And yes, pretty much all of that is obtaineable without drugs through intensive meditation and practice... But why would you walk 30 miles to the nearest gas station when there's a pump a kilometer away... (it's 3:41 am, excuse me for the lack of a better analogy). I can definetely see why people would take the other road but as an introduction to altered states of consciousness and what you can achieve with them, some drugs (specially the psychedelic kind) can be a tool of great use.

 

What I consider stupid, unnecessary and idiotic is the way drugs are generally used nowadays and that can be traced to education, education being laced with groundless affirmations and medieval-like witch hunting except they're chasing the witch's potions instead of the witches themselves... Ancestral cultures all around the world have used psychoactives in shamanic ways (introspective exploration, self-healing of the mind and body, connecting with their beliefs etc..), that lead people to see drugs as powerful tools that should not be played with. (You'll never see a shaman administering ayahuasca brews to a bunch of people so they trip in the woods while they puke their guts out )

[Vapymid]

If we exclude beer and wine,I don't think that's the case. I've never seen someone try 7 kinds of vodka

 

Well, we won't exclude beer (and cider) and wine! And of the spirits - vodka is not the only one (although being one of the most misunderstood and misused ones) that exists - whiskey, gin, cognac/armagnac, bourbons, liqueuers, bitter vodkas, bitters, sake, to name but a few. Not to mention the myriad variations and different flavours of each one... If the main purpose of these drinks was getting drunk there would have been only two varieties - cheap (with a guaranteed hangover) and expensive.

 

As for expanding conciousness - I personally stay with Science Fiction (to borrow from Arthur C Clarke) and music

 

Cheers!

 

P.S. Rum! I forgot about rum. How could I forget rum!? Arghhh! Shiver me timbers...

[BTGBullseye]

I was not intending to include alcohol in that, apparently the system didn't get my edit...

[Luis]

If we exclude beer and wine,I don't think that's the case. I've never seen someone try 7 kinds of vodka

 

Well, we won't exclude beer (and cider) and wine! And of the spirits - vodka is not the only one (although being one of the most misunderstood and misused ones) that exists - whiskey, gin, cognac/armagnac, bourbons, liqueuers, bitter vodkas, bitters, sake, to name but a few. Not to mention the myriad variations and different flavours of each one... If the main purpose of these drinks was getting drunk there would have been only two varieties - cheap (with a guaranteed hangover) and expensive.

 

As for expanding conciousness - I personally stay with Science Fiction (to borrow from Arthur C Clarke) and music

 

Cheers!

 

P.S. Rum! I forgot about rum. How could I forget rum!? Arghhh! Shiver me timbers...

 

Wow. Thanks for showing me my ignorance! Seriously, I didn't consider all that.. The Spirit I'm the most familiar with is absinthe and ironically, it has been ussed for centuries for consciousness expanding and artistic/philosophical inspiration...

 

So, how about we take the topic into a more specific drug question/theses/theme whatever. Suggestions are appreciated.

[Luis]

If we exclude beer and wine,I don't think that's the case. I've never seen someone try 7 kinds of vodka

 

Well, we won't exclude beer (and cider) and wine! And of the spirits - vodka is not the only one (although being one of the most misunderstood and misused ones) that exists - whiskey, gin, cognac/armagnac, bourbons, liqueuers, bitter vodkas, bitters, sake, to name but a few. Not to mention the myriad variations and different flavours of each one... If the main purpose of these drinks was getting drunk there would have been only two varieties - cheap (with a guaranteed hangover) and expensive.

 

As for expanding conciousness - I personally stay with Science Fiction (to borrow from Arthur C Clarke) and music

 

Cheers!

 

P.S. Rum! I forgot about rum. How could I forget rum!? Arghhh! Shiver me timbers...

 

Wow. Thanks for showing me my ignorance! Seriously, I didn't consider all that.. The Spirit I'm the most familiar with is absinthe and ironically, it has been used for centuries for consciousness expanding and artistic/philosophical inspiration...

 

So, would you like to take the topic into a more specific drug question/theses/theme whatever?. Suggestions are appreciated.

[dashofweak]

Another question that has been unanswered in this threat is whether or not the punishments is fair. Of course these laws vary from country to country. However I do know that certain drug dealers, on average, receive higher jail time than rapists. So essentially the question is this: how harsh should drug law enforcement be?

[BTGBullseye]

The sentences for drug offenses is way too high, and only the government disagrees. When murderers and rapists get fewer years than someone that smoked a singe joint (and I have see cases that have had this) there's something seriously wrong with the judicial system.

[Luis]

It tells you a bit about your government's priorities. I agree, most sentences to small-medium dealers are way too unfair. Big capos and guys like that should get huge sentences, it's almost a fact that they have lots of heads on their count, so they may deserve those sentences, but the guy carrying an oz of his favorite ganjah? Nah, he shouldn't get 17 years.

[Doublenature]

It should not even be against the law to do drugs. As long as you dont harm anyone else, then you should be allowed to do whatever the fuck you want. If someone wants to sit outside and smoke weed, get high and then go inside and eat a pizza in 5 minutes then he should be allowed to do so. If said person instead smokes something heavier and proceeds to kill a bunch of people for whatever reason, then he should probably be taken care of by the police....

 

This friday I was out drinking with a few friends, we went to a party aswell

First thing I did when we started drinking was to take 5 shots of vodka, go piss, drink a beer, then another shot of vodka.

Then we went to the store, I could barely stand, barely talk and I didn't really know where I was. (you should've seen me eat that twix drunk out of my mind)

Then we went to the party, drank some more vodka, we had fun but I almost passed out on the couch about 600 times. I also smoked about 40 cigarettes by myself that night.

As soon as I started to sober up I got pretty pissy (I tend to not be in a good mood half-sober/half-drunk, Im usually in that mood that I want to start a fight with someone and beat them half to death) so I went home.

 

Now, almost everyone that Ive seen drunk is pretty fucked up in their head, has no idea how to act, what do to etc. they are just wild and crazy (and that is fun as hell) however:

I have also been around high people. Now high people tend to be very calm, speak slowly, and laugh at almost anything that you say. They walk around smiling and come up with the randomest ideas, I fucking love being around high people.

They dont scream, they dont pass out (usually), they dont annoy you with their talk, they dont smoke a thousand cigarettes when they are high, they are just ...calm. (there doesnt seem to be after-effects, like say, a hangover from smoking weed either but I might be wrong)

Now I know, I know, smoking weed (im gonna focus on weed, because Ive never been close to anyone doing anything stronger) can have really bad long-term effects (alcohol can have this too, but I believe the after-effects of weed are worse. An example is the increased risk of psychosis, Ive heard of people who see "ghost people" in cars and in corners and such)

 

This got dragged out as fuck but is anyone seeing what Im trying to say here?

Alcohol = Fun but dangerous and not good for you

Weed = Fun but dangerous and not good for you

 

 

So why cant we just leave the decision with the person who wants to take said poison?

I understand that there is the whole who-pays-the-bills-for-when-little-jacob(seewhatIdid?)-has-a-mental-breakdown-or-a-kidney-failure and I dont really have a solution, I mean if you pay lots of money for good insurance then this shouldn't be a problem? Dont know how to do if a country has it like sweden (where the health-care is on the taxes) but maybe just go: "If it is self-inflicted, you are on your own".

 

[BTGBullseye]

There are certain drugs that always should be illegal though... Meth for one... (lifespan for those LEAST affected is reduced by 30-40 years) Cocaine outside of application by a doctor as well. (about 1 in 1000 won't attempt to kill you for looking at them wrong) There are a few others, but ganja definitely isn't one of them.

[Doublenature]

There are certain drugs that always should be illegal though... Meth for one... (lifespan for those LEAST affected is reduced by 30-40 years) Cocaine outside of application by a doctor as well. (about 1 in 1000 won't attempt to kill you for looking at them wrong) There are a few others, but ganja definitely isn't one of them.

I understand this as well. Lets say we just keep weed legal, that would work out pretty well, right? Have it government regulated. (although, knowing people, they would start bitching that meth and everything else wasn't legal)

[BTGBullseye]

I doubt there would be public outcry to legalize meth... There might be for LSD though... (LSD, if it's pure, has a very low incidence of harmful side effects apart from bad trips)

[Doom Shepherd]

No government-paid medical treatment for you if you injure yourself (including stroke, heart attack, etc.) on drugs. Nobody but you should have to pay for your inability to cope with reality like a functional human, ya pansy.

 

Also death penalty for DUI or sharing your drugs with your kid, like a number of idiot parents have done. That's my tradeoff for legalization.