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 Post subject: Fallout 1, 2, Tactics
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:00 am 
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I've been meaning to get into the old Fallout games(1,2 Tactics) but I have a problem. For whatever reason I started playing Tactics first and I really enjoyed playing it with multiple characters. Then I played 1 and found the combat to be really unintuitive and drawn out even on the fastest combat speed setting in comparison to Tactics. I was stuck playing one character and due to this I got bored incredibly fast. I made it as far as Junktown and just couldn't keep going. This happened to me about 3-4 times. If the combat was more like Tactics with multiple controllable characters then I probably could get into it. Seriously, why don't I get to control any of my companions? Is Fallout 2's combat any better than 1's or is it largely the same? If that's the case then I might just want to stick with Tactics.


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 Post subject: Re: Fallout 1, 2, Tactics
PostPosted: Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:07 am 
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Tactics is kind of the oddball in the series to be honest and the combat in Tactics is pretty unique to that game.
Fallout 2 is pretty much Fallout 1 but bigger and with better follower AI, so if you didn't like the combat in FO1, you won't like it in FO2.

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 Post subject: Re: Fallout 1, 2, Tactics
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:38 pm 
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Alright here's my argument for Fallout 1's combat being awful.

The maximum amount of AP you can acquire is 10(6 + 4AG) and the average AP cost for all ranged weapons is 5. Provided you didn't move during your turn you'll be able to take two shots. Due to the formula for ranged combat (Skill - 30) + ((PE - 2) * 16) - (HEX * 4) - (AC of Target) [- 10% at night if HEX >= 5] Most likely one of your shots will be wasted. Not to mention that a majority of your encounters will be in open fields due to frequent occurrence of random encounters and if you encounter bandits with any sort of ranged weaponry you might as well reload and hope you don't get that same encounter again.

If you really wanted to squeeze blood from the stone then you could invest 3 ranks of action boy and take fast shot. Then your action points would be 13(6 + 4AG + 3AB) and with fast shot giving a -1 AP cost to all weapons it's technically 14. But this still only grants you one more shot on average and you'll again most likely miss due to the aforementioned factors.

Now I would like to point out that this was fixed in Fallout Tactics since you've got 5 more characters to play with as opposed to your previous 1 character in Fallout 1 & 2.


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 Post subject: Re: Fallout 1, 2, Tactics
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:36 am 
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Heliocentrical wrote:
Due to the formula for ranged combat (Skill - 30) + ((PE - 2) * 16) - (HEX * 4) - (AC of Target) [- 10% at night if HEX >= 5]

This sentence alone tells me you are overanalyzing it. Classic Fallout's combat is not supposed to be a highlight of the game, it is just there, and it is serviceable for what it is supposed to do. Fallout 1 and 2 are not combat-focused. Their strengths lie elsewhere - in reactivity to your character build, multiple approaches to quest solving, exploring, finding cool stuff and meeting interesting people in the pulp sci-fi wasteland.

Especially Fallout 1 is all about discovery, checking out how the world does after the apocalypse, with concepts now forever associated with Fallout brand (super mutants, brotherhood of steel, deathclaws, power armour) only getting introduced for the first time at various points in the game.

If you are looking for a similar-style game but more focused on combat, in the vein of Fallout Tactics, I recommend Wasteland 2.

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 Post subject: Re: Fallout 1, 2, Tactics
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:20 am 
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I agree with Mico. The focus of Fallout 1 and 2 has never been the combat but the roleplaying and the adventures...

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 Post subject: Re: Fallout 1, 2, Tactics
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:25 am 
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Mico Selva wrote:
This sentence alone tells me you are overanalyzing it. Classic Fallout's combat is not supposed to be a highlight of the game, it is just there, and it is serviceable for what it is supposed to do. Fallout 1 and 2 are not combat-focused. Their strengths lie elsewhere - in reactivity to your character build, multiple approaches to quest solving, exploring, finding cool stuff and meeting interesting people in the pulp sci-fi wasteland.

Especially Fallout 1 is all about discovery, checking out how the world does after the apocalypse, with concepts now forever associated with Fallout brand (super mutants, brotherhood of steel, deathclaws, power armour) only getting introduced for the first time at various points in the game.

If you are looking for a similar-style game but more focused on combat, in the vein of Fallout Tactics, I recommend Wasteland 2.

Alright, is there a way I can avoid combat entirely then? Because I can't stand it. If not then I want it to be over and done with ASAP.


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 Post subject: Re: Fallout 1, 2, Tactics
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:29 am 
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Just get Wasteland 2... It's by the same guys that did Fallout, but is a continuation of the game they made that predates Fallout. (it's also much better IMO)

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 Post subject: Re: Fallout 1, 2, Tactics
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:35 am 
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I do not think you can avoid combat entirely, but there are very few mandatory combat situations in Fallout. You can always run away from random encounters (or just avoid them with Outdoorsman skill), stealth through dungeon-type areas (like the first rat cave) and most quests give you non-combat solutions (use dynamite on radscorpion cave, etc.).

Also, if I recall correctly Fallout has difficulty levels, so setting combat to 'easy' might help you endure encounters you are unable to avoid.

However, I am a strong believer in playing games to have fun. If you do not enjoy Fallout 1&2, why force yourself to play it? When I had a similar situation with Fallout 3, I abandoned it and never looked back. ;)

EDIT: @BTGBullseye

Actually, only a couple of people with Fallout legacy worked on Wasteland 2, and none of them was involved in Fallout 1 (apart from the CEO Brian Fargo). But quite a few Wasteland 2 devs worked on Wasteland 1 (Fallout's predecessor).

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 Post subject: Re: Fallout 1, 2, Tactics
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:28 pm 
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Mico Selva wrote:
Also, if I recall correctly Fallout has difficulty levels, so setting combat to 'easy' might help you endure encounters you are unable to avoid.

Say that to my pistol wielding guy that got killed by a rat just by walking 10 feet... (was done on Easy, repeated twice thereafter) Ranged combat in Fallout 1/2 = Waste of ammo that could be sold for money.

Mico Selva wrote:
Actually, only a couple of people with Fallout legacy worked on Wasteland 2, and none of them was involved in Fallout 1 (apart from the CEO Brian Fargo). But quite a few Wasteland 2 devs worked on Wasteland 1 (Fallout's predecessor).

I stand corrected... Still, Wasteland was the basis of Fallout, they just had to change it because they had sold the IP to a studio that refused to return it or exploit it. (this makes Wasteland 2 inherently better IMO)

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 Post subject: Re: Fallout 1, 2, Tactics
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:17 pm 
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Mico Selva wrote:
I do not think you can avoid combat entirely, but there are very few mandatory combat situations in Fallout. You can always run away from random encounters (or just avoid them with Outdoorsman skill), stealth through dungeon-type areas (like the first rat cave) and most quests give you non-combat solutions (use dynamite on radscorpion cave, etc.).

Also, if I recall correctly Fallout has difficulty levels, so setting combat to 'easy' might help you endure encounters you are unable to avoid.

However, I am a strong believer in playing games to have fun. If you do not enjoy Fallout 1&2, why force yourself to play it? When I had a similar situation with Fallout 3, I abandoned it and never looked back. ;)

I'll see about lowering the difficulty and make a stealth build. I wanted to see what Fallout 1 & 2 were all about since I heard they're really good RPGs. It's just that I never got far due to the combat. In Fallout 1 I got as far as Junktown and that was it.


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 Post subject: Re: Fallout 1, 2, Tactics
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:11 pm 
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Well, I personally didn't like Fallout 1, probably because I started with second and it's still one of my favourite games of all time. Just can't make myself replay it 10th time. Second one has a bit better but still not great combat system. So I don't know, if you'd really enjoy it.

Tactics does have best combat of the 3 and version I had (pirated back in the day) had all race stats in a txt file, so it was fun to break it: getting 5k agility was ridiculous.

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