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 Post subject: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:17 pm 
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18 Quintilian planets, the odds of encountering anther player, slim to none, slim at best. Like with many games, people let their imaginations run wild with what they imagined the game would really be like, and what they would be doing. People hyped the fuck out the game. The company dancing around some subject matters, like multiplayer. The delays.

So, do you think this game was doomed to fail? If so, why? For me, I think so, and the biggest reasons being the people, us customers. We hyped the fuck out of it, we let our imaginations run wild. When the game was released, it didn't live up to our expectations. We claim Hello Games lied to us, but in reality, I feel we lied to ourselves.

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:47 pm 
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Best explanation video I've watch in regards to No Man's Sky.

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:55 am 

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An overhyped indie game that shouldn't have been a AAA game.

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 2:03 am 
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Always be wary of overhyped or "controversial" games, because a lot of them are marketing stunts.

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:01 am 
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Psychotic Ninja wrote:
For me, I think so, and the biggest reasons being the people, us customers. We hyped the fuck out of it, we let our imaginations run wild. When the game was released, it didn't live up to our expectations. We claim Hello Games lied to us, but in reality, I feel we lied to ourselves.

While, in part, I agree that "hype culture" is getting out of control, Hello Games did lie. A redditor compiled a list of all the things that were advertised that didn't end up in the game: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments ... _big_list/

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:29 am 

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Kirkreng wrote:
Psychotic Ninja wrote:
For me, I think so, and the biggest reasons being the people, us customers. We hyped the fuck out of it, we let our imaginations run wild. When the game was released, it didn't live up to our expectations. We claim Hello Games lied to us, but in reality, I feel we lied to ourselves.

While, in part, I agree that "hype culture" is getting out of control, Hello Games did lie. A redditor compiled a list of all the things that were advertised that didn't end up in the game: https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments ... _big_list/

My guess is that they initially planned for a much smaller game but all the critics and news outlets started the hype, Hello Games were overwhelmed and started to follow the hype thinking they could a lot more to the game at some point. In the end - they probably couldn't keep track of what they have said. Do they even have PR/media/marketing people? I have a feeling they didn't, that's why there all these "failed promises" which in a lot of cases were just super vague responses from the dev. In short - they were way over their head on this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 1:52 pm 

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Was it destined to fail? yes. Media & fans way overhyped it, expecting something much more than this game could possibly offer.
Was it nessessary for gaming in general? definetly. NMS started a new era in gaming, even if it failed.

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:10 pm 

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Everyone's so focused about the hype and that it couldn't match expectations, that they don't discuss why the core concepts of No Man's Sky don't and can't make for a fun game on themselves.
And as someone who has pretty much avoided the hype because I think I understood that from the get-go, I think it's a real let down because this game tried something everybody thought they wanted, but no one really wanted.

Starting off with procedurally generated everything - this doesn't make for a fun game. When everything happens all at the same time, you just get chaos with no cause or goal - and therefore, in the large scheme of things, you as a player have no consequence on the world even if you could affect a certain thing - planet or animal or otherwise - as that thing happening already exists in the world, just in a different place. It just makes everything seem pointless, and while sightseeing tours can be fun in short bursts (like walking simulators), they can't engage unless they're telling a story and have actual direction.

Proceeding with the vastness - vastness isn't a good thing. The "bigger" your game is, the larger is the average amount of time the player has to spend between every piece of unique content. Whether it be grinding or sailing (in The Wind Waker) or space flight (NMS), you're just wasting everybody's time. That's not to say if everything in a single game were compacted into a singular point in time it would've been better - there's a fitting length for every game - but if you're advertising bigness over actual content, you're just promoting mindless busywork.
That's just the problem I've had with Bethesda games. Big overworld, lots of quests, but a lot of dead in between times where you're just grinding and walking through a mostly desolate world. I know it's an uncommon opinion, but I find all of them boring. There's probably a way to make a game that feels big but isn't and just funnels the player to new content at every turn, like an "open world" game with an Ironman mode and a timer, so you can't wander off too far without being pressured into reaching your objective. There are probably other ways to accomplish the same goal, like using the art design for that - the vistas in Half Life 2's episodes are a prime example for that. But I'm getting off topic.

The combat in NMS seemed especially iffy from the trailers, because it was just point-and-shoot. No cover, no smart AI, not anything. This sort of "whoever has the best gun wins" without any consideration to player skill and only to player progression just reeks of a grindfest. At the time I didn't know you could upgrade you weapon by just wandering around and stumbling upon a schematic, but it's just the same busywork - instead of fighting mindlessly, you're walking/flying mindlessly to your next objective. It's just boring by definition.

Also, they're an indie mobile studio tackling the most insane premise you could think of. Expected performance issues aside, the principles of modern mobile gaming just do not apply to serious gaming - whether it be the "choose your own adventure without understanding a word" (RNG with artificial choice elements) or mining/fighting (click to win), it's just badly designed. And it's not the fault of Hello Games either - it's the fault of the entire mobile industry, which is flooded with crap targeting and preying upon casual gamers and non gamers.

With those 4 things in my mind, I didn't think once it's going to interest me or become a good game in my opinion. With no hype or expectations, there is no outrage. BULLET AVOIDED.


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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:22 am 
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Yell of course, the reason people hyped this game up so much was because of the marketing made it seem more then just a walking simulator and the devs knew that, that's why the were reluctant to show gameplay and when they did it was always the same walk here, name that, and fly away, and that's another thing, if and the game's whole thing was procedurally generated and no one ever seeing the same thing as another player, then whats the point of the naming system! I think that it's just this generation of p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶ gamers buys into marketing to much and just believes whatever they see. This game is the perfect example of why you don't buy day one or pre-order.


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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:21 pm 
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can we stop blaming hype
even if this game had 1% of the attention it got, players didn't get what they paid for and what they were promised
i expected the same pitfall starbound had on release, i.e. procedurally generated worlds being the same planets basically recolored, but the difference is starbound was a $15 indie title and NMS is a full priced $60 game

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 4:50 pm 

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Username wrote:
can we stop blaming hype
even if this game had 1% of the attention it got, players didn't get what they paid for and what they were promised
i expected the same pitfall starbound had on release, i.e. procedurally generated worlds being the same planets basically recolored, but the difference is starbound was a $15 indie title and NMS is a full priced $60 game

well, hype is lot to blame for actually. True, game wasnt nearly close to what it was advertised, but lets be fair- hype was off the charts on this one. That also was cause for it costing 60 bucks- demand was so high that devs felt they sell enough even with high price & steam refund mechanics (because in game so big as this, you play more than 2 hours before you even know wheter you like it or not).
And another part why hype was to blame- i've been gamer most of my life, yet i've never seen so impossible wishes from gamers to a game. I mean some imagined it to be star wars-like, some star trek, some mass effect (all examples are meant as huge universe) and so on. Basically everyone wanted planet from their favourite sci-fi show to be there. Or at least gameplay to be extremely good. i cant explain it any better.

Still, it was obvious from start that this was meant to be groundbreaking title (and lets face it- it IS that) just because of its sheer scope. Well, at least to me. It has barebones for game to be playable & enjoyable, but thats it. Like pretty much any groundbreaking mechanic, it starts off in failed game as gimmick.

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 9:57 pm 
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What I take from what I've seen of it compared to the promise, is that they were unable to meet their deadline because they stupidly set it too soon. Because of this, they released a late Alpha, or early Beta instead of the final product.

Unfortunately, most devs would take the money they made on this, and move on... It remains to be seen if the devs are actually going to finish the game, or leave it to rot.

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:00 pm 
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BTGBullseye wrote:
What I take from what I've seen of it compared to the promise, is that they were unable to meet their deadline because they stupidly set it too soon. Because of this, they released a late Alpha, or early Beta instead of the final product.

Unfortunately, most devs would take the money they made on this, and move on... It remains to be seen if the devs are actually going to finish the game, or leave it to rot.

the problem is, there was also content cut from the game that was previously shown in demos
it's a watch_dogs case, but worse

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:05 pm 
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How do you know that that content would even be in a format usable by the current engine? It isn't always cut just to remove it from the game, there can be technical issues with the content.

As I said, we haven't given the devs sufficient time to find out if they're going to let the game rot, or finish it.

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:09 pm 
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BTGBullseye wrote:
How do you know that that content would even be in a format usable by the current engine? It isn't always cut just to remove it from the game, there can be technical issues with the content.

As I said, we haven't given the devs sufficient time to find out if they're going to let the game rot, or finish it.

For example, Cloakers were cut in Payday 2 because they were buggy as fuck. Sure they're still buggy, but they were far worse.

Game companies cut content all the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:51 pm 
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In any case, that's still terrible business practice and basically false advertising.
Probably normal stuff in the industry though, you shouldn't put incomplete content in your game if you're not going to actually implement it right away.

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 2:39 pm 
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It may have been relatively complete when they showed it, but in implementing the other systems necessary for the game to function as a game instead of a demo, it may have broken something in that content that couldn't be easily fixed... Hence, cut content.

We don't know, so don't be hostile until we find out for sure.

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:36 pm 
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It's also a matter of how much was cut. Cutting one or two things such as an enemy or weapon due to bugs or balance issues is fine, but cutting large or recognizable portions of the game is pretty bad.

From what I'm hearing of the complaints is that the game doesn't really go anywhere; that late game is basically the same gather, sell, move to next planet routine as it was at start.

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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:23 am 
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Rarity wrote:
It's also a matter of how much was cut. Cutting one or two things such as an enemy or weapon due to bugs or balance issues is fine, but cutting large or recognizable portions of the game is pretty bad.

From what I'm hearing of the complaints is that the game doesn't really go anywhere; that late game is basically the same gather, sell, move to next planet routine as it was at start.


Thing is, this is a major complaint of a lot of exploration survival games. Forest and Subnautica have it too in which eventually you're full of supplies and gear to the point...there is no real survival feeling anymore. You built your base, you built a ton of stuff that makes your base self-sufficient and you're essentially done with the survival portion.

It's really sad because survival games are one of my favorite modern genres it's just, no one is doing anything unique in them and they all just feel...the same, really. Only reason I even bother with Subnautica is because it being underwater is unique enough whereas NMS you have space travel and planets that just look same old same old after awhile with weird and derpy looking animals.


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 Post subject: Re: Was No Man's SKy doomed to fail?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:55 am 
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BTGBullseye wrote:
It may have been relatively complete when they showed it, but in implementing the other systems necessary for the game to function as a game instead of a demo, it may have broken something in that content that couldn't be easily fixed... Hence, cut content.

We don't know, so don't be hostile until we find out for sure.


The problem is how much content was cut, there's no way they cut that much content because it was buggy or not working properly, what they gave us was half-baked at best and it was falsely advertised.

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